At 2.5 million, metropolitan Portland, Oregon is obviously nowhere near as big as London, nor is it a world city. But it is still one of the major West Coast cities between Vancouver, Canada, and San Diego, and many tourists pushing down to California or up to Seattle/Vancouver stop in Portland. We also have Mississippi Records, which brings in many record tourists from around the world (and touring bands).
The only gripe I have in a used record store, however, is when somebody (always a man) takes a huge stack of LPs to the one listening station and takes zero consideration in others who also may want to give an LP a quick spin before purchase. It's all about them and their massive pile and they won't budge. These aren't tourists, though; these are always regular crate diggers, and, to be honest, more often than not of a certain younger generation.
Thank you, Michael! The stores I visit most regularly do not have listening stations. I suspect this is because they are in the heart of central London and they usually get very crowded. In fact, I’m so used to not having them available that I have never used them. I completely agree with you it must be such a pain if some shoppers monopolise them. If I was the owner of a store with a listening station, I would put a limit on how many records/minutes each person is allowed per turn.
At the same time it must be hard to police these things.
What’s frustrating is the lack of consideration of those who go and hog the spot like there’s no one else in the store.
I can totally imagine the “bros” typically guilty of this behaviour!
"If you are a serious collector, you know the drill: choose your spot, flick as quickly as you can, and move on. Unless you’re standing next to one of your best friends, keep a safe distance to your left and right, avoid eye contact, and don’t engage in conversation."
Okay, this one has me completely baffled, because this is exactly the opposite of my experience in record stores and why I love them. I'm not a serious collector, this is true, so maybe I'm the annoying person that you're writing about, because record stores are exactly where I love striking up conversations, because it's one of the only public spaces where I can reliably encounter people who love music and have interesting things to say about it. A record store is *exactly* where I want to start up conversations, pull out records and talk about liner notes, etc. I've had some of my best conversations about music with the person across from me browsing in a vinyl store!
Thank you, Faith! Maybe I should have clarified that I meant, specifically, when browsing, especially when the store is busy and people want to browse in peace.
I am also biased by the fact most of the stores I visit, due to convenience, are right in the heart of central London, and get so crowded that there’s not usually a lot of time or even space to engage in conversation.
Having said that, I also think that you guys in the States are, generally speaking, a lot better at the whole talking with strangers thing. I’ve noticed it in my trips to America—all this is anecdotal of course, but I sometimes feel the politeness thing is inverted: in some situations in the States, it’s seen as rude not to comment or say something in passing, whereas in England (especially London and the rest of the south east) it’s the opposite: it’s rude to talk to strangers unless there’s a real need (like an emergency 🤣).
As soon as I visit stores a bit further away from central London, I hear more of these conversations and I notice there’s more of a sense of community. All this to say that how central the location is probably plays a role, regardless of the country.
This is all very intriging to me, as someone who travels to the UK frequently.
I wonder if this is another example of the north/south divide, too. I've not been to any record stores in London, but in Liverpool, I find people more than happy to talk with outlanders (or at least this particular outlander) anytime, anywhere, about anything for any reason -- on the bus, in the queue, at the record store... far more so than in America!
But come to think of it, I don't think I've had any meaningful interactions with strangers in London, which I've found to be very much more like what you describe. This is possibly why I love Liverpool so deeply and London not so much...
Exactly. This is spot on. I’d even go as far as to say that anything north of Birmingham (give or take) is, by far, completely different when it comes to interactions and the rules around privacy. London is like jungle, you’re on your own. You can’t fully rely on anyone, but you’ll have, in return, an amount of freedom I haven’t seen anywhere else. My hometown (Buenos Aires, Argentina) is a big city but, because it’s Latin America, people talk a lot more, help each other, and judge each other. My falling in love with London was, perhaps, a direct reaction to that.
there's definitely a freedom in anonymity, but a loneliness and a vulnerability too and not in a good way a lot of the time. I learned that after 20 years in Los Angeles, where people talk with strangers a little TOO much a lot of the time and yet are not especially willing to help out a neighbor in need.
I think that's why I love Liverpool -- which yes, I always tell my American friends, you think I'm spending time in Britain, but I'm not, I'm spending time in Liverpool -- because it seems to be a mix of the best of all those traits. Friendly, tolerant, live and let live, and willing to step up and help, too.
This is very true. The loneliness and vulnerability in particular. I love visiting Liverpool but I don’t think I could live there, maybe because of the same reasons you would love to live there. And I love that difference, because it means that these places are genuine, and they are what they say on the label.
But I do feel compelled to note that his Northern accent was not a Northern accent. I don't know what the hell it was, but it wasn't a Northern accent!
Lol yes it’s very funny. But I agree it’s not a northern accent. I’d say Midlands at best or, if indeed northern, south of Hull, and only the tiniest faints of it left
What if you get so lost in your own world that you forget you've placed your picks on top of another stack?
"Asking for a friend."
Seriously though; the stores I frequent tend to be out of the way, and the few times I see kids in there, they're as into the records as their parents. That said, letting a kid bring ice cream in? Straight to jail.
Lol I hear you. My take: if no one else is browsing, it’s okay, provided you pick it up as soon as you see that someone needs access.
When I browse, I hate being interrupted, or having to pay attention to my surroundings, so I either hold my picks with one hand and continue browsing with the other or, better still, place my picks at the very front of the stack to deal with before I move on to the next stack.
Great that the stores you frequent are not too invaded! Central London is insane, especially during weekends.
I remember once one of these happy families tried to get in with their kid holding (wait for it) candy floss, which I believe you guys call cotton candy. I kid you not. The store owner respectfully asked them to leave and come back without the candy. I mean, really? 😂 Some people....
"Similar to men’s urinal etiquette (including the quick flicking). It’s not rocket science."
That maybe the best line ever.... I nearly fell out of my chair laughing because it's so accurate.
I'm thinking of coming to London next year for the Goodwood festival of speed, and was planning on hitting some record stores, I will strive not to act like a tourist.
We have similar rules of respect on our side of the pond and tolerate the ‘rule breakers’ as well. However, what you describe takes record shops off our list of things to do on your side of the pond. The excitement for a visitor like me would be absolutely to experience a different environment and soak it in. I think I’d rather do that in a friendly pub.
Thank you, Scott, for your comment. I think what I described is the case mostly in Central London, especially at weekends. Stores are small (high rent) and demand is high, so the place is usually packed. In less central areas in London, and elsewhere in Britain, it’s a different story, especially on weekdays. More space, less people, and a deeper sense of community. Central London is mass market pretty much for everything, including vinyl.
Hi Andres, Sadly, these tourists you’re describing are in the US too. Instinctually you know their musical interests are all warm and cozy within Top 40 radio. Yet they’ll stroll into a record store with mock curiosity like, ‘OMG! This is still a thing?!’
I feel grateful that my son who’s 11 has a genuine interest in records and the musicians who make them. Just yesterday I brought him w/ me to a record show. He found a used copy of Abbey Road but was disappointed when he noticed the previous owner wrote his name on the cover. He asked, ‘Why do people do that?!’
It’s so cool you’re taking your son along and that he takes it seriously. That comment he made is impressive considering his young age. You’ve taught him well!
I’m a local in a popular tourist town as well, but I’ve found that a welcome and some friendly directions gets the best response from tourists. They always know they’re not fitting in, and they’re normally self conscious of it, and they’re usually trying not to be annoying even if it doesn’t look that way.
Tourists act much more disrespectfully when they think the locals don’t want them there - in that case they see no point in being courteous. Sounds like that’s a safe assumption in this record shop, which means the cycle will continue until a welcoming local breaks it
Hi Dave! Thank you for your comment. I agree with you, and I do the same when I see the vinyl “tourists” or generally those who are clearly inexperienced come in with respect. We all started somewhere.
My frustration is aimed at those who, from the start, with their attitude, body language and behaviour, make it abundantly clear that they don’t care one single bit about anything or anyone else apart from themselves. Happens a lot in other places as well like gyms, swimming pools and language courses. There will always be people who need a hand but can read the room. And there will always be those who can read it but decide to ignore it.
I can feel the relief in your voice (I always listen to your posts while reading them) at the end, like you finally got this off your chest and now you feel lighter and freer. Thankfully, where I shop, there are few vinyl tourists to be found. And if anyone, even a child, was seen with an ice cream cone, they would be (rightfully) tasered by a security guard within seconds.
I love the snarky tone throughout and your example of the subway/tube escalators ("keep to your right, asswipe!" -- what we'd say in the states just before getting shot) is so relatable.
I do find, though, that in stores with narrow aisles, it's tricky, because I do like to go through the stacks, especially the bins where it's not alphabetical, maybe new releases or something like that, one at a time so I dont miss some rare gem. It can take a few minutes to get through one stack. If the guy next to me is nearing the end of his stack and is clearly moving in my direction, am I supposed to cut my perusal early to let him in because I'm going more slowly?
And where do we put our "probably going to buy" stack of ten records during this period? I tend to put them on the bins to my right as I move, taking them off if someone wants to look through the bin. Most record shops don't have baskets or a suitable portable carrying device to offer.
Anyway, I'd love a continuation on this theme, and maybe you've already written about this, like 10 tips for bin browsing or something like that.
Thank you so much, Steve! I’m so happy to hear you listen to the voiceovers. Thank you!!
Also glad to see you got the snark (although this doesn’t surprise me). Of course I’m hyperbolic and I exaggerate (ever so slightly 🤣) for dramatic effect, but glad to see there’s an audience for it every now and then!
The thing for me is that most stores I visit are right in the heart of central London (where I work and where my gym is) and they can get VERY crowded. I don’t live too far (15 min on the tube), and while I love London and can’t imagine living anywhere else, crowds can be draining.
Stores with narrow aisles are par for the course on these shores, so I know exactly what you mean. I don’t object to what you do because you browse properly, with purpose (my dig is at people who just fool around when they can see the store is very busy). In the grand scheme of things, I don’t think it matters too much whether you spend 10 or 20 minutes browsing a certain section (I’d much rather share the space with someone who does what you do than with someone who keeps going back to the section he’s just supposedly finished browsing).
When there isn’t a lot of space, and there’s no one browsing the rack next to yours, I don’t think it’s a bad idea to make use of that space.
What I tend to do, however, is to place my “potential picks” at the very front of the stack I’m browsing. I carry them along with me until I’ve made up my mind. Anything I’m not buying, I leave exactly where I found it.
But I’m a lot more relaxed when the store is huge and not busy… it’s just that the ones I tend to visit are always tiny and packed!
Thanks, getting a bit better every day… still some congestion but clearing up.
Thanks again for your good vibes and for giving me ideas for future posts! Much much appreciated.
This made me feel like such a vinyl tourist lol. Ive been collecting for just a little over a year and had no idea a few of these like not talkin to those digging next to me was an unwritten rule. Personally, at least where im from, we love chopping it up with those digging im the same genres as us
Thank you! To be fair, this is predominantly in central London. Crowded stores, not a lot of room, and things get busy and messy quite quickly. I do not, however, as a rule, like to chat when I’m crate digging, and most other collectors I know will tell you the same, but that’s probably cultural to a certain extent.
Oh, I do so love your snark, Andy! I hope your cold subsides, and whatever you do, don't trip and break your snark! Sometimes (regarding the snark I'm so enamored of using myself) you make me feel like I'm Mister Rogers (American PBS TV show....in case it never made it to Jolly Ole: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Rogers%27_Neighborhood)!😉
Here's my POV from the '70s, and the decidedly "first run" (no used records, whatsoever) record stores in which I worked (Cactus Records/Houston, TX, 1977-1980, and Music Plus, two locations in L.A. county...Glendale and Pasadena, 1980-1983): Cactus was a rather large store, not unlike the famed Tower on Sunset Blvd. Lotsa room, so rarely was elbow room (or lack of) an issue.
The two L.A. stores were quite smaller, mall-type stores (although neither were in malls) usually just attached to a small shopping center. The good news is kids, all throughout my experience, were never really an issue. They were usually accompanied by parents, and the only negative memory I have is one toddler crying loudly, the mom yelling at her ("Stop crying!") and spanking her on the bottom as she did so........she actually seemed stunned that the kid kept crying after being smacked! "I-told-you-to-stop-crying!" Whack! "Waaaahhh!" Amazing.
So, the view from across the continents, as well as from across the centuries, Andy, has to also accompany the differences (however vast and noticeable) of public interactions, common courtesies, several generations of children's upbringing.............and,
the simple fact that, in the '70s and '80s, we consumers were buying, owning, and listening to the very records that are now sleeved in plastic, and take up the majority of acreage in what are now the plentiful "used-record stores" that were borderline non-existent (here it comes)....back in my day!
With really rare exceptions, one of the only used-record outlets/venues in L.A., early-'80s was the monthly record mart in the parking lot across the street from the famed Capitol Records stack-o'-singles office building! Moby Disc may have had used records, too, plus, Rhino Records had a retail space.....but, if memory serves, both Moby and Rhino were more about current releases, but specialized in the rare: new imports, new indies and regional releases, etc. I don't recall used.
Even if 3-year-old hellions were running around with naked chocolates and/or ice creams, it's doubtful our inventory would've been our first concern, as employees. These sparkling new albums were factor-sealed, and seemed virtually impermeable to the sticky fingers that might otherwise mar "Sticky Fingers"! Plus, again, "our" shopping parents seemed far more alert to their wayward tots, and seemed loathe to the notion of having them embarrass them in public.
These days? "Well, Jonquil and Toby-Keith, if you identify as someone who likes to run around this record store, screaming at the top of your lungs, you have every right to do so! Oh, by the way, if you see that Velvet Underground debut I saw here last week, let me know...but, whatever you do, don't touch it!"
Thank you so much, Brad! You know how much I value your experience, and how I enjoy your generosity and eloquence when you decide to bless this space with such gems from those golden years! I, for one, will always romanticise those years: first, because I’m too young to have seen them, but second, and most importantly, because you have no idea how much I wish I had!
Just to think that all those pressings from those glorious eras were new!!! MINT!!!!! 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱 Just the mere thought of it sends me flying.
Now, regaining my composure, it makes sense that the atmosphere was more relaxed, particularly in terms of safety, because… well, those were no-nonsense times when it comes to many things I won’t get into (but my snark salutes yours very fondly), but also because there wasn’t this desperate need to preserve them… at least, not consciously. They weren’t worth hundreds (not yet, at least), and please ler me say it again… they were NEW 😱😱😱😱
Thanks again, for everything… you make me daydream about an era I missed but which I cherish so much… I can time travel with a little help from my friend!
(Cold is much better, thanks. I think it was… wait for it…. covid!! 😱😱😱 but I survived to tell the tale!) (The snark will never die, that’s for sure 🤣🤣). Thanks again! Big hug
The notion, as you say, of us thinking of preserving the records then....at least in terms of a secondary market (or, something called eBay a couple decades away!), was barely a thought to only a few.
Makes me think of the baseball cards I used to collect in the '60s (again, for your readers, I was 10 in '65). I had a bunch, but we recklessly clothes-pinned some to our bike's spokes to effect the sound of a motorcycle.....thus, of course, ruining the cards from any future hope of a resale value!
Imagine if we had heard or discovered that rubber-banding 45s to our heads would make it look like we were wearing a helmet! But, I'm almost glad we WERE that oblivious to the eventual $ aspect to collecting.....anything.
I had a bunch of comics I had collected, as well as rock mags, many of which I had saved for several years! I'm kinda happy we were unselfconscious to the point of just enjoying these things in the moment, and without a second thought!
It's a pleasure having you step into my time machine, Andy, and it's fun to help you daydream, with my memorable Texas childhood as the backdrop! Bigger hug!!
Yes, I completely see what you mean: being oblivious to the future value of those collectibles, you were able to focus on enjoying them. Naturally, as they meant a lot to you (regardless of any future value they ended up having), you looked after them, but this was driven by the actual enjoyment, and not by the intention to make a profit (at least, back then).
Look, I really hate kids. I actually really do. I think they are sticky and terrible and I wish parents wouldn't take them anywhere. But this behavior exists everywhere, in every public space, with kids or without, because people are rude and entitled. When it comes to records, I feel a particular defensiveness because I'm a music obsessive (and a music writer!) but I'm not a physical media collector. I still love going to record stores. I'm not going to hog a bin, but I am going to go in without buying anything,too.
One thing I've noticed about the British is that you won't just ask people to move. You'll cough and fluster but you won't just say excuse me do you mind if I have a look there, too? I feel like that would solve a lot of problems. Not saying they aren't being dicks, but listen, it's a public space. You get to be there, so do they, just work it out.
You’re so right, Gabbie. People are rude and entitled. It’s just that, sometimes, I feel that some parents with kids are so busy and/or distracted that they fail to realise the world doesn’t revolve around their kids.
What you say about Brits is so true that it hurts 🤣🤣🤣 We would MUCH rather die in agony than talk to a stranger sometimes 😅 especially if it’s to point out something they might interpet as a telling off. We’re such a neurotic nation, there’s no way around it 😅
100% agree! Don’t even get me started with the voices some parents use when they play with their children. I’ve noticed it a lot on planes. How is it that the mother/father is louder and more annoying than the crying infant? 🤣🤣
The description you give about the sort of clients goes for any product/service I think, Andy 😁. I agree completely. You always should have some respect and certainly when you're visiting somewhere. And what is it with people visiting a shop to "spend some time" ? What's wrong with a nice museum or playground if your children need to spend some energy ?
Thank you, Pe! It's true: this type of customer can be found in other stores as well, not just record stores. However, I've noticed that vinyl tends to attract them in hordes, particularly at certain times of the year.
The selfishness and lack of consideration of some (especially parents with young children) know no limits 😂 Put it this way: you can always tell when it's half-term holidays, even if you don't work in a school or have children of school age 😅
“It’s always been my life’s dream to visit London. It would probably have been easier before my wife and I had a couple of kids but life just gets in the way sometimes.
Anyway, we were both really excited to visit some of London’s record shops while we were there. I like to spend my time poring over the selections because I love the artwork, and because it’s often difficult to find the Japanese funk rarities I love so much.
One of my favourite things about record collecting is the community. We’re all there because of our love of the hobby, and I’ve met some of my best friends in record shops.
It probably wasn’t the best idea to give the kids ice creams before going in the shop, but we always have wet wipes on hand so it’s not like they were sticky or anything. They were a little bored though. They’ve got no interest in records. I hope they will as they get older but I don’t want to force my hobbies on them.
I got the feeling I was being watched the whole time, like there were eyes piercing the back of my head. I realised some guy was just staring at my family and me, like we didn’t belong there or that our tourist money wasn’t good enough for a local like him. You’d have thought I was standing on the wrong side of the escalator or something! Anyway, it was a real shame and made me feel super uncomfortable, so regrettably we left without buying anything.
It bothered me the rest of the day. I’d never been made to feel so unwelcome in all my years of pursuing my passion. I’ve no idea what his problem was. Maybe it was the fact I was visiting from another country, maybe it was because I brought my kids. I don’t know, though. I try not to speculate. There’s nothing I hate more than when people make snap judgements about others without getting to know them.
I’d best be going. There’s a plate of bone marrow at Hawksmoor with my name on it.”
I’m sure independent record shops will be delighted to hear that YOU don’t want potential customers in their shop. Not to mention the beautiful thought of a kid happening upon an interesting cover, his parent buying it and his life being changed forever.
Hi Ray! Thank you for your comment. Did you actually read the post? These people (vinyl tourists) are not interested in buying records and they are generally not even invested in music at all, let alone with the depth you seem to imply.
Record store owners are the first to suffer as these casual visits, while surely in most cases well-intentioned, push real customers away.
I can still read and understand what you say without cap locks, by the way.
At 2.5 million, metropolitan Portland, Oregon is obviously nowhere near as big as London, nor is it a world city. But it is still one of the major West Coast cities between Vancouver, Canada, and San Diego, and many tourists pushing down to California or up to Seattle/Vancouver stop in Portland. We also have Mississippi Records, which brings in many record tourists from around the world (and touring bands).
The only gripe I have in a used record store, however, is when somebody (always a man) takes a huge stack of LPs to the one listening station and takes zero consideration in others who also may want to give an LP a quick spin before purchase. It's all about them and their massive pile and they won't budge. These aren't tourists, though; these are always regular crate diggers, and, to be honest, more often than not of a certain younger generation.
Just my vegan two cents.
Seriously. 5 record MAX per shift at the listening station, no full songs—skip and then dip!
Thank you, Michael! The stores I visit most regularly do not have listening stations. I suspect this is because they are in the heart of central London and they usually get very crowded. In fact, I’m so used to not having them available that I have never used them. I completely agree with you it must be such a pain if some shoppers monopolise them. If I was the owner of a store with a listening station, I would put a limit on how many records/minutes each person is allowed per turn.
At the same time it must be hard to police these things.
What’s frustrating is the lack of consideration of those who go and hog the spot like there’s no one else in the store.
I can totally imagine the “bros” typically guilty of this behaviour!
"If you are a serious collector, you know the drill: choose your spot, flick as quickly as you can, and move on. Unless you’re standing next to one of your best friends, keep a safe distance to your left and right, avoid eye contact, and don’t engage in conversation."
Okay, this one has me completely baffled, because this is exactly the opposite of my experience in record stores and why I love them. I'm not a serious collector, this is true, so maybe I'm the annoying person that you're writing about, because record stores are exactly where I love striking up conversations, because it's one of the only public spaces where I can reliably encounter people who love music and have interesting things to say about it. A record store is *exactly* where I want to start up conversations, pull out records and talk about liner notes, etc. I've had some of my best conversations about music with the person across from me browsing in a vinyl store!
I don't hog the stacks though. 😎
Thank you, Faith! Maybe I should have clarified that I meant, specifically, when browsing, especially when the store is busy and people want to browse in peace.
I am also biased by the fact most of the stores I visit, due to convenience, are right in the heart of central London, and get so crowded that there’s not usually a lot of time or even space to engage in conversation.
Having said that, I also think that you guys in the States are, generally speaking, a lot better at the whole talking with strangers thing. I’ve noticed it in my trips to America—all this is anecdotal of course, but I sometimes feel the politeness thing is inverted: in some situations in the States, it’s seen as rude not to comment or say something in passing, whereas in England (especially London and the rest of the south east) it’s the opposite: it’s rude to talk to strangers unless there’s a real need (like an emergency 🤣).
As soon as I visit stores a bit further away from central London, I hear more of these conversations and I notice there’s more of a sense of community. All this to say that how central the location is probably plays a role, regardless of the country.
PS Also I just ask people to scoot over if they’re conversing in front of a section I want to browse because I’m like that. 😎
Some of this is what we desperately need here in England, especially in London. Less fear/apprehension to just be direct 🤣🤣
In London, "pardon me" is an apology. In America and in Liverpool, "Pardon me" means "can you please move, you're in the way!"
Lol soo true! Liverpudlians, like the Scots and Irish, have a lot more in common with Americans than the average Englishman/woman.
This is all very intriging to me, as someone who travels to the UK frequently.
I wonder if this is another example of the north/south divide, too. I've not been to any record stores in London, but in Liverpool, I find people more than happy to talk with outlanders (or at least this particular outlander) anytime, anywhere, about anything for any reason -- on the bus, in the queue, at the record store... far more so than in America!
But come to think of it, I don't think I've had any meaningful interactions with strangers in London, which I've found to be very much more like what you describe. This is possibly why I love Liverpool so deeply and London not so much...
Exactly. This is spot on. I’d even go as far as to say that anything north of Birmingham (give or take) is, by far, completely different when it comes to interactions and the rules around privacy. London is like jungle, you’re on your own. You can’t fully rely on anyone, but you’ll have, in return, an amount of freedom I haven’t seen anywhere else. My hometown (Buenos Aires, Argentina) is a big city but, because it’s Latin America, people talk a lot more, help each other, and judge each other. My falling in love with London was, perhaps, a direct reaction to that.
there's definitely a freedom in anonymity, but a loneliness and a vulnerability too and not in a good way a lot of the time. I learned that after 20 years in Los Angeles, where people talk with strangers a little TOO much a lot of the time and yet are not especially willing to help out a neighbor in need.
I think that's why I love Liverpool -- which yes, I always tell my American friends, you think I'm spending time in Britain, but I'm not, I'm spending time in Liverpool -- because it seems to be a mix of the best of all those traits. Friendly, tolerant, live and let live, and willing to step up and help, too.
This is very true. The loneliness and vulnerability in particular. I love visiting Liverpool but I don’t think I could live there, maybe because of the same reasons you would love to live there. And I love that difference, because it means that these places are genuine, and they are what they say on the label.
I thought you’d both appreciate this fun video: https://youtu.be/PT0ay9u1gg4
Hilarious! 😂😂
Omg, Imy laughing and crying at the same time.
But I do feel compelled to note that his Northern accent was not a Northern accent. I don't know what the hell it was, but it wasn't a Northern accent!
Lol yes it’s very funny. But I agree it’s not a northern accent. I’d say Midlands at best or, if indeed northern, south of Hull, and only the tiniest faints of it left
What if you get so lost in your own world that you forget you've placed your picks on top of another stack?
"Asking for a friend."
Seriously though; the stores I frequent tend to be out of the way, and the few times I see kids in there, they're as into the records as their parents. That said, letting a kid bring ice cream in? Straight to jail.
Lol I hear you. My take: if no one else is browsing, it’s okay, provided you pick it up as soon as you see that someone needs access.
When I browse, I hate being interrupted, or having to pay attention to my surroundings, so I either hold my picks with one hand and continue browsing with the other or, better still, place my picks at the very front of the stack to deal with before I move on to the next stack.
Great that the stores you frequent are not too invaded! Central London is insane, especially during weekends.
I remember once one of these happy families tried to get in with their kid holding (wait for it) candy floss, which I believe you guys call cotton candy. I kid you not. The store owner respectfully asked them to leave and come back without the candy. I mean, really? 😂 Some people....
Lol. Cotton candy? Oof.
You couldn't make it up!
"Similar to men’s urinal etiquette (including the quick flicking). It’s not rocket science."
That maybe the best line ever.... I nearly fell out of my chair laughing because it's so accurate.
I'm thinking of coming to London next year for the Goodwood festival of speed, and was planning on hitting some record stores, I will strive not to act like a tourist.
Cheers, Bob! Glad you enjoyed 😅
That’s so cool! Let me know and we can go for a beer or two in London if you have time.
Thank you for the invitation, that would be awesome!
👍🏻😎
We have similar rules of respect on our side of the pond and tolerate the ‘rule breakers’ as well. However, what you describe takes record shops off our list of things to do on your side of the pond. The excitement for a visitor like me would be absolutely to experience a different environment and soak it in. I think I’d rather do that in a friendly pub.
Thank you, Scott, for your comment. I think what I described is the case mostly in Central London, especially at weekends. Stores are small (high rent) and demand is high, so the place is usually packed. In less central areas in London, and elsewhere in Britain, it’s a different story, especially on weekdays. More space, less people, and a deeper sense of community. Central London is mass market pretty much for everything, including vinyl.
Hi Andres, Sadly, these tourists you’re describing are in the US too. Instinctually you know their musical interests are all warm and cozy within Top 40 radio. Yet they’ll stroll into a record store with mock curiosity like, ‘OMG! This is still a thing?!’
I feel grateful that my son who’s 11 has a genuine interest in records and the musicians who make them. Just yesterday I brought him w/ me to a record show. He found a used copy of Abbey Road but was disappointed when he noticed the previous owner wrote his name on the cover. He asked, ‘Why do people do that?!’
He gets it.
Hi Chris! Your description is spot on 🤣
It’s so cool you’re taking your son along and that he takes it seriously. That comment he made is impressive considering his young age. You’ve taught him well!
I’m a local in a popular tourist town as well, but I’ve found that a welcome and some friendly directions gets the best response from tourists. They always know they’re not fitting in, and they’re normally self conscious of it, and they’re usually trying not to be annoying even if it doesn’t look that way.
Tourists act much more disrespectfully when they think the locals don’t want them there - in that case they see no point in being courteous. Sounds like that’s a safe assumption in this record shop, which means the cycle will continue until a welcoming local breaks it
Hi Dave! Thank you for your comment. I agree with you, and I do the same when I see the vinyl “tourists” or generally those who are clearly inexperienced come in with respect. We all started somewhere.
My frustration is aimed at those who, from the start, with their attitude, body language and behaviour, make it abundantly clear that they don’t care one single bit about anything or anyone else apart from themselves. Happens a lot in other places as well like gyms, swimming pools and language courses. There will always be people who need a hand but can read the room. And there will always be those who can read it but decide to ignore it.
Very true. I wish reading the room was taught in every school
I can feel the relief in your voice (I always listen to your posts while reading them) at the end, like you finally got this off your chest and now you feel lighter and freer. Thankfully, where I shop, there are few vinyl tourists to be found. And if anyone, even a child, was seen with an ice cream cone, they would be (rightfully) tasered by a security guard within seconds.
I love the snarky tone throughout and your example of the subway/tube escalators ("keep to your right, asswipe!" -- what we'd say in the states just before getting shot) is so relatable.
I do find, though, that in stores with narrow aisles, it's tricky, because I do like to go through the stacks, especially the bins where it's not alphabetical, maybe new releases or something like that, one at a time so I dont miss some rare gem. It can take a few minutes to get through one stack. If the guy next to me is nearing the end of his stack and is clearly moving in my direction, am I supposed to cut my perusal early to let him in because I'm going more slowly?
And where do we put our "probably going to buy" stack of ten records during this period? I tend to put them on the bins to my right as I move, taking them off if someone wants to look through the bin. Most record shops don't have baskets or a suitable portable carrying device to offer.
Anyway, I'd love a continuation on this theme, and maybe you've already written about this, like 10 tips for bin browsing or something like that.
Fun piece as always! And feel better!
Thank you so much, Steve! I’m so happy to hear you listen to the voiceovers. Thank you!!
Also glad to see you got the snark (although this doesn’t surprise me). Of course I’m hyperbolic and I exaggerate (ever so slightly 🤣) for dramatic effect, but glad to see there’s an audience for it every now and then!
The thing for me is that most stores I visit are right in the heart of central London (where I work and where my gym is) and they can get VERY crowded. I don’t live too far (15 min on the tube), and while I love London and can’t imagine living anywhere else, crowds can be draining.
Stores with narrow aisles are par for the course on these shores, so I know exactly what you mean. I don’t object to what you do because you browse properly, with purpose (my dig is at people who just fool around when they can see the store is very busy). In the grand scheme of things, I don’t think it matters too much whether you spend 10 or 20 minutes browsing a certain section (I’d much rather share the space with someone who does what you do than with someone who keeps going back to the section he’s just supposedly finished browsing).
When there isn’t a lot of space, and there’s no one browsing the rack next to yours, I don’t think it’s a bad idea to make use of that space.
What I tend to do, however, is to place my “potential picks” at the very front of the stack I’m browsing. I carry them along with me until I’ve made up my mind. Anything I’m not buying, I leave exactly where I found it.
But I’m a lot more relaxed when the store is huge and not busy… it’s just that the ones I tend to visit are always tiny and packed!
Thanks, getting a bit better every day… still some congestion but clearing up.
Thanks again for your good vibes and for giving me ideas for future posts! Much much appreciated.
This made me feel like such a vinyl tourist lol. Ive been collecting for just a little over a year and had no idea a few of these like not talkin to those digging next to me was an unwritten rule. Personally, at least where im from, we love chopping it up with those digging im the same genres as us
Thank you! To be fair, this is predominantly in central London. Crowded stores, not a lot of room, and things get busy and messy quite quickly. I do not, however, as a rule, like to chat when I’m crate digging, and most other collectors I know will tell you the same, but that’s probably cultural to a certain extent.
Oh, I do so love your snark, Andy! I hope your cold subsides, and whatever you do, don't trip and break your snark! Sometimes (regarding the snark I'm so enamored of using myself) you make me feel like I'm Mister Rogers (American PBS TV show....in case it never made it to Jolly Ole: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mister_Rogers%27_Neighborhood)!😉
Here's my POV from the '70s, and the decidedly "first run" (no used records, whatsoever) record stores in which I worked (Cactus Records/Houston, TX, 1977-1980, and Music Plus, two locations in L.A. county...Glendale and Pasadena, 1980-1983): Cactus was a rather large store, not unlike the famed Tower on Sunset Blvd. Lotsa room, so rarely was elbow room (or lack of) an issue.
The two L.A. stores were quite smaller, mall-type stores (although neither were in malls) usually just attached to a small shopping center. The good news is kids, all throughout my experience, were never really an issue. They were usually accompanied by parents, and the only negative memory I have is one toddler crying loudly, the mom yelling at her ("Stop crying!") and spanking her on the bottom as she did so........she actually seemed stunned that the kid kept crying after being smacked! "I-told-you-to-stop-crying!" Whack! "Waaaahhh!" Amazing.
So, the view from across the continents, as well as from across the centuries, Andy, has to also accompany the differences (however vast and noticeable) of public interactions, common courtesies, several generations of children's upbringing.............and,
the simple fact that, in the '70s and '80s, we consumers were buying, owning, and listening to the very records that are now sleeved in plastic, and take up the majority of acreage in what are now the plentiful "used-record stores" that were borderline non-existent (here it comes)....back in my day!
With really rare exceptions, one of the only used-record outlets/venues in L.A., early-'80s was the monthly record mart in the parking lot across the street from the famed Capitol Records stack-o'-singles office building! Moby Disc may have had used records, too, plus, Rhino Records had a retail space.....but, if memory serves, both Moby and Rhino were more about current releases, but specialized in the rare: new imports, new indies and regional releases, etc. I don't recall used.
Even if 3-year-old hellions were running around with naked chocolates and/or ice creams, it's doubtful our inventory would've been our first concern, as employees. These sparkling new albums were factor-sealed, and seemed virtually impermeable to the sticky fingers that might otherwise mar "Sticky Fingers"! Plus, again, "our" shopping parents seemed far more alert to their wayward tots, and seemed loathe to the notion of having them embarrass them in public.
These days? "Well, Jonquil and Toby-Keith, if you identify as someone who likes to run around this record store, screaming at the top of your lungs, you have every right to do so! Oh, by the way, if you see that Velvet Underground debut I saw here last week, let me know...but, whatever you do, don't touch it!"
Thank you so much, Brad! You know how much I value your experience, and how I enjoy your generosity and eloquence when you decide to bless this space with such gems from those golden years! I, for one, will always romanticise those years: first, because I’m too young to have seen them, but second, and most importantly, because you have no idea how much I wish I had!
Just to think that all those pressings from those glorious eras were new!!! MINT!!!!! 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱😱 Just the mere thought of it sends me flying.
Now, regaining my composure, it makes sense that the atmosphere was more relaxed, particularly in terms of safety, because… well, those were no-nonsense times when it comes to many things I won’t get into (but my snark salutes yours very fondly), but also because there wasn’t this desperate need to preserve them… at least, not consciously. They weren’t worth hundreds (not yet, at least), and please ler me say it again… they were NEW 😱😱😱😱
Thanks again, for everything… you make me daydream about an era I missed but which I cherish so much… I can time travel with a little help from my friend!
(Cold is much better, thanks. I think it was… wait for it…. covid!! 😱😱😱 but I survived to tell the tale!) (The snark will never die, that’s for sure 🤣🤣). Thanks again! Big hug
The notion, as you say, of us thinking of preserving the records then....at least in terms of a secondary market (or, something called eBay a couple decades away!), was barely a thought to only a few.
Makes me think of the baseball cards I used to collect in the '60s (again, for your readers, I was 10 in '65). I had a bunch, but we recklessly clothes-pinned some to our bike's spokes to effect the sound of a motorcycle.....thus, of course, ruining the cards from any future hope of a resale value!
Imagine if we had heard or discovered that rubber-banding 45s to our heads would make it look like we were wearing a helmet! But, I'm almost glad we WERE that oblivious to the eventual $ aspect to collecting.....anything.
I had a bunch of comics I had collected, as well as rock mags, many of which I had saved for several years! I'm kinda happy we were unselfconscious to the point of just enjoying these things in the moment, and without a second thought!
It's a pleasure having you step into my time machine, Andy, and it's fun to help you daydream, with my memorable Texas childhood as the backdrop! Bigger hug!!
Yes, I completely see what you mean: being oblivious to the future value of those collectibles, you were able to focus on enjoying them. Naturally, as they meant a lot to you (regardless of any future value they ended up having), you looked after them, but this was driven by the actual enjoyment, and not by the intention to make a profit (at least, back then).
I love your time-machine! Thanks for inviting me!
Look, I really hate kids. I actually really do. I think they are sticky and terrible and I wish parents wouldn't take them anywhere. But this behavior exists everywhere, in every public space, with kids or without, because people are rude and entitled. When it comes to records, I feel a particular defensiveness because I'm a music obsessive (and a music writer!) but I'm not a physical media collector. I still love going to record stores. I'm not going to hog a bin, but I am going to go in without buying anything,too.
One thing I've noticed about the British is that you won't just ask people to move. You'll cough and fluster but you won't just say excuse me do you mind if I have a look there, too? I feel like that would solve a lot of problems. Not saying they aren't being dicks, but listen, it's a public space. You get to be there, so do they, just work it out.
Everybody hates a tourist, Jarvis.
You’re so right, Gabbie. People are rude and entitled. It’s just that, sometimes, I feel that some parents with kids are so busy and/or distracted that they fail to realise the world doesn’t revolve around their kids.
What you say about Brits is so true that it hurts 🤣🤣🤣 We would MUCH rather die in agony than talk to a stranger sometimes 😅 especially if it’s to point out something they might interpet as a telling off. We’re such a neurotic nation, there’s no way around it 😅
I think pretty much everyone with kids is like that! I think my hatred for children is probably better directed at their parents!
(ok not EVERYONE but ... just about)
100% agree! Don’t even get me started with the voices some parents use when they play with their children. I’ve noticed it a lot on planes. How is it that the mother/father is louder and more annoying than the crying infant? 🤣🤣
The description you give about the sort of clients goes for any product/service I think, Andy 😁. I agree completely. You always should have some respect and certainly when you're visiting somewhere. And what is it with people visiting a shop to "spend some time" ? What's wrong with a nice museum or playground if your children need to spend some energy ?
Thank you, Pe! It's true: this type of customer can be found in other stores as well, not just record stores. However, I've noticed that vinyl tends to attract them in hordes, particularly at certain times of the year.
The selfishness and lack of consideration of some (especially parents with young children) know no limits 😂 Put it this way: you can always tell when it's half-term holidays, even if you don't work in a school or have children of school age 😅
Thanks for reading!
“It’s always been my life’s dream to visit London. It would probably have been easier before my wife and I had a couple of kids but life just gets in the way sometimes.
Anyway, we were both really excited to visit some of London’s record shops while we were there. I like to spend my time poring over the selections because I love the artwork, and because it’s often difficult to find the Japanese funk rarities I love so much.
One of my favourite things about record collecting is the community. We’re all there because of our love of the hobby, and I’ve met some of my best friends in record shops.
It probably wasn’t the best idea to give the kids ice creams before going in the shop, but we always have wet wipes on hand so it’s not like they were sticky or anything. They were a little bored though. They’ve got no interest in records. I hope they will as they get older but I don’t want to force my hobbies on them.
I got the feeling I was being watched the whole time, like there were eyes piercing the back of my head. I realised some guy was just staring at my family and me, like we didn’t belong there or that our tourist money wasn’t good enough for a local like him. You’d have thought I was standing on the wrong side of the escalator or something! Anyway, it was a real shame and made me feel super uncomfortable, so regrettably we left without buying anything.
It bothered me the rest of the day. I’d never been made to feel so unwelcome in all my years of pursuing my passion. I’ve no idea what his problem was. Maybe it was the fact I was visiting from another country, maybe it was because I brought my kids. I don’t know, though. I try not to speculate. There’s nothing I hate more than when people make snap judgements about others without getting to know them.
I’d best be going. There’s a plate of bone marrow at Hawksmoor with my name on it.”
Is this a quote from a book or essay? The inverted commas got me wondering 😅
I’m sure independent record shops will be delighted to hear that YOU don’t want potential customers in their shop. Not to mention the beautiful thought of a kid happening upon an interesting cover, his parent buying it and his life being changed forever.
Hi Ray! Thank you for your comment. Did you actually read the post? These people (vinyl tourists) are not interested in buying records and they are generally not even invested in music at all, let alone with the depth you seem to imply.
Record store owners are the first to suffer as these casual visits, while surely in most cases well-intentioned, push real customers away.
I can still read and understand what you say without cap locks, by the way.
Wishing you a pleasant day.