Andres, when I read your posts it often makes me think about the ways in which the world of records and the world of books are similar. Stickers...scribbling! These also devalue first edition books in terms of sales value. (However, I do love when I have something that has a sticker for a discontinued currency, feels like a bit of history:)
Thank you, Michelle! Yes, absolutely: owning a record has so much in common with owning a book: the experience, the physical/collection element, the intentionality of the activity, etc. Interesting that scribbles and the like affect the value of first edition books, but it makes a lot of sense! I also think record collectors are more likely to start collecting books and vice versa.
With records now including download codes along with the vinyl, I'll be curious to see how whether or not it's already been used will/won't affect value in the future.
Great stuff as usual. What about records that include a CD? 🙀 I have a record by Thalia and another one by Édith Piaf with CDs besides the vinyl. All sealed and nice as I don’t use nor collect CDs. Do you think it may increase their value in the future? I think that it might!
Thank you! Most probably yes, especially if they are limited editions or classed as collectibles. As always, it really depends on supply and demand, but if they are limited editions, you’ve got at least one of the main variables going for you 😎
Great tips, hints, and advice, Andy! Thanks for the hat tip! As you know, I "liquidated" my 2,000-unit LP collection (no, that doesn't mean I melted them!🤣) at the turn of the century (on eBay). I thought you and your readers might enjoy my experiences:
When I sold autographed albums (or posters), of course I'd reveal how they were obtained....some were personalized ("To Brad, Drop dead, Iggy Pop" promo "Idiot" poster...at this point, would a buyer even care if it was personalized? Which is not meant to contradict your advice; Iggy also added a Hitler mustache to his poster visage, so.....most artists' "customary" sig style are well-known); most, however, weren't personalized (my collection of signed Ramones singles pic sleeves and album jackets)!
After I gained some "mileage" as a trusted seller, authentication seemed needless, and I also didn't want to go thru the hassle...I had just spent the '90s becoming very familiar with baseball cards, autographs, and authentication, so I was aware of the process. But, as you say....usually, folks have one or two signed albums they may want to sell, and authentication for a smaller collection seems more practical. For the amount I had, the cost would be daunting, and again, I waited to sell those items until I had a suitable, trustable eBay track record!
Since the '70s, when I'd buy an album (as you know, so many of my acquired discs were un-shrunk promos), I'd tear a decent portion of the shrink-wrap off that had a hype sticker affixed, and simply toss it into the jacket with the record! Decades later, when I sold it/them, I'd include that sticker in the photo with the album, so the buyer would have the original sticker, but both of us, now, didn't have to worry about sticker loss or sticker residue. Most collectors seemed pleased to just be in possession of an original shrink-wrap hype sticker!
An example of a sticker a collector would WANT still affixed to a jacket would be the un-shrunk, white-label promos....here in the U.S., CBS Records (Columbia, Epic and affiliated labels) would slap a timing band (as it was called) on the lower quarter of the front of the jacket. It would include the album's track listing, and each song's duration (an aid for radio DJs)! There was also a little box by each song that, ostensibly, could be checked at radio stations to indicate which songs a DJ (or music director or program director) preferred getting airplay! Here's an example of that timing band: https://www.ebay.com/itm/115930419216
Another wonderful and informing article, Andy....I know how much you like "reports from the front lines," so thanks for allowing me the space to expound a bit (I miss my records😥)!
Thank you so much, Brad! This is pure gold. Thanks so much for sharing! I agree that authentication makes more sense for a small collection, and/or for sellers who are either starting out, or don’t provide as much detail as you did (i.e. the detailed account of how and when the autograph was obtained counts in a way as some sort of “circumstantial evidence”). What you explain about timing bands (thanks!) reminds me of the highly coveted OBIs of Japanese items. Crazy how small details can enhance the value of a collection! But then again, collectors tend to have this eye for detail, so stuff like that is always welcome and appreciated!
Thanks again for the detailed report from the front lines!
Happy to do it! I want to make clear my hoarding of things like shrink-wrap hype stickers had nothing to do with any prescient notion I had of a secondary market decades into the future, but was a simple outgrowth of my passion (OK, fine.....OCD lite!) for everything having to do with the record(s)!
I also used to (get ready to cringe) tear out any album reviews, articles, interviews, etc of the records and artists (from the rock mags), and (making sure they were dated with publication name, of course) slipped them, also, into the record jacket! Usually no big deal if only a page or three (or even a record company press kit/bio/head shot), but with something like The S*x Pistols album (that, with band, got so much press coverage!), I'd file it back onto my shelf all but stuffed (to the point of being, like, 2 inches thick!😱) with press clippings!
So, for over 20 years (since I sold it online 2 dozen years ago), that poor record had to endure the temperature changes moving from TX to California, and back again, with the pressure of dozens of magazine articles and such pressing against it! Your readers, being much smarter than I, would know to get a filing system of some sort to file those clippings away, instead of using each album sleeve (with vinyl) as its own filing drawer!!
Needless to say, when it came time to selling everything, I sold any album's clippings as a separate lot (THAT turned out to salvage an otherwise dumb filing decision), and when selling the record, I'd honestly state how it had been stored....most buyers, I noticed, cared little about the playability (they already had 8 copies, say, for that!).....they just wanted the white label promo, etc, to finish off their collection!
It’s so cool you included press clippings into the records, as all that material can hold value in and of itself! Makes sense that your clientele were mainly completists, as they tend to hunt (and pay handsomely for) material like that! Thanks again!
" I'd tear a decent portion of the shrink-wrap off that had a hype sticker affixed, and simply toss it into the jacket with the record!" Love this idea! I wish I had the wherewithal to have done that with so many of my records. I do have the original "rolling paper" with my copy of Cheech and Chong's "Big Bambu"! I'll have to look into what that might be worth...
Well, I'll see you one C&C rolling paper, and raise you one flammable pair of pink panties that came with my original Alice Cooper "School's Out" 1972 promo album (with die-cut desk with "legs" that also opened like old school desks used to do....see "Little Prayer on the Housie")!
Sure enough, after initial copies had shipped, some buttinski somewhere noticed or guessed that said panties were flammable (hey, they didn't singe any part of my.......uh, I mean, I'm sure they were safe!🙄), and while a feeble recall was attempted, Warners simply shipped subsequent albums with allegedly newly-safe panties....I'm sure I wasn't alone in breathing a sigh of relief.
As for the hype stickers (as I think I hinted to Andy), I just couldn't bring myself to throw anything away! So enamored of, literally, everything having to do with "the record" and also the artist, I guess I figured a year from now, I might want to see the original sticker the jacket had, and even remember pulling some out, at various times, and just laying it on the jacket in the approximate place it was originally! Aren't you glad I didn't seek the help I so desperately needed?!?😁
This is helpful, thanks. I’m more of a record buyer than a record collector so I don’t mind getting an occasional case of the measles, so to speak, if I end up with a record that I’ve had my eye on for a while or that’s not on streaming services.
Great! It was always fun and amazing to live in the land of records, when there was really nothing else around as a way to deliver music! There was even the occasional single that would end up with a punch-hole through it somewhere on the label. Never quite knew how those got there! We just assumed, I think, that this was the 45 version of a manufacturer's/wholesaler's cut-out.
Hi Brad. I own a few records that have a small, cut-out/notch in the upper right side. I’ve read that these notches indicate either (1) the record was used at a radio station, or (2) the record was excess capacity that didn’t sell at a retail store and was sent back to the label/distributor. In your experience is either of these true?
Corner notches are like the measles....no one wants to get them, and few will pay for them. Great questions, and thanks for asking! In my experience, for the most part, notches were the designation that a record has been discontinued, and this usually only happened at the wholesale/warehouse level. It wouldn't happen at the chain retail level, because records were returned to the main office/warehouse. If an independent store, they'd likely do the same thing.
When you say "the record was used at a radio station," you mustn't infer that THEY'RE the ones who put the notches there. Every so often (in my mid-'70s radio station days, and my late-'70s thru early '80s retail days), most white label promo LPs did NOT have a notch.
It was enough for them to have the white label (and for CBS and affiliates, the white banding strip and occasional "Promotion Not For Sale" gold stamp on the back upper-left-hand corner)....a notch wan't necessary. Now, every now and then (and again, mostly Columbia), there would be a notch on a promo album. I didn't like them, but as long as it was a new/recent release, and I'm handed the album by a label rep, I know the notch wasn't a 6-month-old dreaded warehouse (or even label) cut-out!
Of course, the other well-known promo indicators (white label, banding sticker, etc) made a notch a moot point....it's obviously not a cut-out, because promos were never sold at the retail level!
If you're keeping these in your collection, fine. For re-sale, you might find some reluctance by prospective buyers to consider a notched cut-out (as those usually are if they're clearly not a promo). It's weird that cut-outs have that stigma, but, that was my experience....they were kind of like the unwanted runts of the litter!
Thanks for asking, Marcus, and I'm more than happy to answer other questions, if ya got 'em!--Brad
Just commenting to thank you both so much for this exchange! My experience (which, needless to say, is a lot more recent, and doesn’t have an ounce of the wealth of Brad’s), cut-outs are now worth less (again, this is simplistic, but for all intents and purposes, many buyers/sellers nowadays will consider that a cut-out somehow tarnishes the value of an outer sleeve). If, however, that specific edition is in high demand (Brad mentioned completists earlier, which have a huge bearing when it comes to this), then the price diminisher of a cut-our will have less of an impact, becauss those completists will be ready to pay more for that edition, cut-out or not).
Exactly....as ran thru my head after I pushed "send": If there are three of the same album you want, and one's a cut-out, your decision is now between the remaining two! If the vinyl and/or any other part of the cut-out's jacket is cleaner, and you deem better, then you've got a decision to make, and likely you might choose the cut-out, but its redeeming qualities had best be stellar...to echo Andy!
Andres, when I read your posts it often makes me think about the ways in which the world of records and the world of books are similar. Stickers...scribbling! These also devalue first edition books in terms of sales value. (However, I do love when I have something that has a sticker for a discontinued currency, feels like a bit of history:)
Andres, when I read your posts it often makes me think about the ways in which the world of records and the world of books are similar. Stickers...scribbling! These also devalue first edition books in terms of sales value. (However, I do love when I have something that has a sticker for a discontinued currency, feels like a bit of history:)
Thank you, Michelle! Yes, absolutely: owning a record has so much in common with owning a book: the experience, the physical/collection element, the intentionality of the activity, etc. Interesting that scribbles and the like affect the value of first edition books, but it makes a lot of sense! I also think record collectors are more likely to start collecting books and vice versa.
With records now including download codes along with the vinyl, I'll be curious to see how whether or not it's already been used will/won't affect value in the future.
Good point! You know, I always ignore those download codes. I’d be curious to see what format the audio comes in.
Great stuff as usual. What about records that include a CD? 🙀 I have a record by Thalia and another one by Édith Piaf with CDs besides the vinyl. All sealed and nice as I don’t use nor collect CDs. Do you think it may increase their value in the future? I think that it might!
Thank you! Most probably yes, especially if they are limited editions or classed as collectibles. As always, it really depends on supply and demand, but if they are limited editions, you’ve got at least one of the main variables going for you 😎
Great tips, hints, and advice, Andy! Thanks for the hat tip! As you know, I "liquidated" my 2,000-unit LP collection (no, that doesn't mean I melted them!🤣) at the turn of the century (on eBay). I thought you and your readers might enjoy my experiences:
When I sold autographed albums (or posters), of course I'd reveal how they were obtained....some were personalized ("To Brad, Drop dead, Iggy Pop" promo "Idiot" poster...at this point, would a buyer even care if it was personalized? Which is not meant to contradict your advice; Iggy also added a Hitler mustache to his poster visage, so.....most artists' "customary" sig style are well-known); most, however, weren't personalized (my collection of signed Ramones singles pic sleeves and album jackets)!
After I gained some "mileage" as a trusted seller, authentication seemed needless, and I also didn't want to go thru the hassle...I had just spent the '90s becoming very familiar with baseball cards, autographs, and authentication, so I was aware of the process. But, as you say....usually, folks have one or two signed albums they may want to sell, and authentication for a smaller collection seems more practical. For the amount I had, the cost would be daunting, and again, I waited to sell those items until I had a suitable, trustable eBay track record!
Since the '70s, when I'd buy an album (as you know, so many of my acquired discs were un-shrunk promos), I'd tear a decent portion of the shrink-wrap off that had a hype sticker affixed, and simply toss it into the jacket with the record! Decades later, when I sold it/them, I'd include that sticker in the photo with the album, so the buyer would have the original sticker, but both of us, now, didn't have to worry about sticker loss or sticker residue. Most collectors seemed pleased to just be in possession of an original shrink-wrap hype sticker!
An example of a sticker a collector would WANT still affixed to a jacket would be the un-shrunk, white-label promos....here in the U.S., CBS Records (Columbia, Epic and affiliated labels) would slap a timing band (as it was called) on the lower quarter of the front of the jacket. It would include the album's track listing, and each song's duration (an aid for radio DJs)! There was also a little box by each song that, ostensibly, could be checked at radio stations to indicate which songs a DJ (or music director or program director) preferred getting airplay! Here's an example of that timing band: https://www.ebay.com/itm/115930419216
Another wonderful and informing article, Andy....I know how much you like "reports from the front lines," so thanks for allowing me the space to expound a bit (I miss my records😥)!
Thank you so much, Brad! This is pure gold. Thanks so much for sharing! I agree that authentication makes more sense for a small collection, and/or for sellers who are either starting out, or don’t provide as much detail as you did (i.e. the detailed account of how and when the autograph was obtained counts in a way as some sort of “circumstantial evidence”). What you explain about timing bands (thanks!) reminds me of the highly coveted OBIs of Japanese items. Crazy how small details can enhance the value of a collection! But then again, collectors tend to have this eye for detail, so stuff like that is always welcome and appreciated!
Thanks again for the detailed report from the front lines!
Happy to do it! I want to make clear my hoarding of things like shrink-wrap hype stickers had nothing to do with any prescient notion I had of a secondary market decades into the future, but was a simple outgrowth of my passion (OK, fine.....OCD lite!) for everything having to do with the record(s)!
I also used to (get ready to cringe) tear out any album reviews, articles, interviews, etc of the records and artists (from the rock mags), and (making sure they were dated with publication name, of course) slipped them, also, into the record jacket! Usually no big deal if only a page or three (or even a record company press kit/bio/head shot), but with something like The S*x Pistols album (that, with band, got so much press coverage!), I'd file it back onto my shelf all but stuffed (to the point of being, like, 2 inches thick!😱) with press clippings!
So, for over 20 years (since I sold it online 2 dozen years ago), that poor record had to endure the temperature changes moving from TX to California, and back again, with the pressure of dozens of magazine articles and such pressing against it! Your readers, being much smarter than I, would know to get a filing system of some sort to file those clippings away, instead of using each album sleeve (with vinyl) as its own filing drawer!!
Needless to say, when it came time to selling everything, I sold any album's clippings as a separate lot (THAT turned out to salvage an otherwise dumb filing decision), and when selling the record, I'd honestly state how it had been stored....most buyers, I noticed, cared little about the playability (they already had 8 copies, say, for that!).....they just wanted the white label promo, etc, to finish off their collection!
It’s so cool you included press clippings into the records, as all that material can hold value in and of itself! Makes sense that your clientele were mainly completists, as they tend to hunt (and pay handsomely for) material like that! Thanks again!
" I'd tear a decent portion of the shrink-wrap off that had a hype sticker affixed, and simply toss it into the jacket with the record!" Love this idea! I wish I had the wherewithal to have done that with so many of my records. I do have the original "rolling paper" with my copy of Cheech and Chong's "Big Bambu"! I'll have to look into what that might be worth...
Well, I'll see you one C&C rolling paper, and raise you one flammable pair of pink panties that came with my original Alice Cooper "School's Out" 1972 promo album (with die-cut desk with "legs" that also opened like old school desks used to do....see "Little Prayer on the Housie")!
Sure enough, after initial copies had shipped, some buttinski somewhere noticed or guessed that said panties were flammable (hey, they didn't singe any part of my.......uh, I mean, I'm sure they were safe!🙄), and while a feeble recall was attempted, Warners simply shipped subsequent albums with allegedly newly-safe panties....I'm sure I wasn't alone in breathing a sigh of relief.
As for the hype stickers (as I think I hinted to Andy), I just couldn't bring myself to throw anything away! So enamored of, literally, everything having to do with "the record" and also the artist, I guess I figured a year from now, I might want to see the original sticker the jacket had, and even remember pulling some out, at various times, and just laying it on the jacket in the approximate place it was originally! Aren't you glad I didn't seek the help I so desperately needed?!?😁
Never change, Brad!!! 😎😄😘
Our obsessions and peculiarities are what make us fully realized humans! Or more realized at least.
This is helpful, thanks. I’m more of a record buyer than a record collector so I don’t mind getting an occasional case of the measles, so to speak, if I end up with a record that I’ve had my eye on for a while or that’s not on streaming services.
Great! It was always fun and amazing to live in the land of records, when there was really nothing else around as a way to deliver music! There was even the occasional single that would end up with a punch-hole through it somewhere on the label. Never quite knew how those got there! We just assumed, I think, that this was the 45 version of a manufacturer's/wholesaler's cut-out.
Hi Brad. I own a few records that have a small, cut-out/notch in the upper right side. I’ve read that these notches indicate either (1) the record was used at a radio station, or (2) the record was excess capacity that didn’t sell at a retail store and was sent back to the label/distributor. In your experience is either of these true?
Corner notches are like the measles....no one wants to get them, and few will pay for them. Great questions, and thanks for asking! In my experience, for the most part, notches were the designation that a record has been discontinued, and this usually only happened at the wholesale/warehouse level. It wouldn't happen at the chain retail level, because records were returned to the main office/warehouse. If an independent store, they'd likely do the same thing.
When you say "the record was used at a radio station," you mustn't infer that THEY'RE the ones who put the notches there. Every so often (in my mid-'70s radio station days, and my late-'70s thru early '80s retail days), most white label promo LPs did NOT have a notch.
It was enough for them to have the white label (and for CBS and affiliates, the white banding strip and occasional "Promotion Not For Sale" gold stamp on the back upper-left-hand corner)....a notch wan't necessary. Now, every now and then (and again, mostly Columbia), there would be a notch on a promo album. I didn't like them, but as long as it was a new/recent release, and I'm handed the album by a label rep, I know the notch wasn't a 6-month-old dreaded warehouse (or even label) cut-out!
Of course, the other well-known promo indicators (white label, banding sticker, etc) made a notch a moot point....it's obviously not a cut-out, because promos were never sold at the retail level!
If you're keeping these in your collection, fine. For re-sale, you might find some reluctance by prospective buyers to consider a notched cut-out (as those usually are if they're clearly not a promo). It's weird that cut-outs have that stigma, but, that was my experience....they were kind of like the unwanted runts of the litter!
Thanks for asking, Marcus, and I'm more than happy to answer other questions, if ya got 'em!--Brad
Just commenting to thank you both so much for this exchange! My experience (which, needless to say, is a lot more recent, and doesn’t have an ounce of the wealth of Brad’s), cut-outs are now worth less (again, this is simplistic, but for all intents and purposes, many buyers/sellers nowadays will consider that a cut-out somehow tarnishes the value of an outer sleeve). If, however, that specific edition is in high demand (Brad mentioned completists earlier, which have a huge bearing when it comes to this), then the price diminisher of a cut-our will have less of an impact, becauss those completists will be ready to pay more for that edition, cut-out or not).
Exactly....as ran thru my head after I pushed "send": If there are three of the same album you want, and one's a cut-out, your decision is now between the remaining two! If the vinyl and/or any other part of the cut-out's jacket is cleaner, and you deem better, then you've got a decision to make, and likely you might choose the cut-out, but its redeeming qualities had best be stellar...to echo Andy!
Andres, when I read your posts it often makes me think about the ways in which the world of records and the world of books are similar. Stickers...scribbling! These also devalue first edition books in terms of sales value. (However, I do love when I have something that has a sticker for a discontinued currency, feels like a bit of history:)