This! Great post as usual! I’m struggling with the inner sleeves! I have seen a lot of people recommending “invest in vinyl” sleeves - where basically they put the records inside these and then place the records outside the actual gatefold sleeve, at the back, so basically when you grab the record, you have the outer plastic sleeve, and then inside, the actual (now) empty gatefold and the plastic sleeve containing the vinyl. While it looks beautiful (basically you can see the vinyl at the back and if it’s a coloured vinyl even cuter), I am not sure it’s really the best option. What do you think? I’m literally about to buy 100 pack of those so this post came at the right time! 😊 What do you think?
I’ve heard of these “invest in vinyl” sleeves. In my opinion it sounds unnecessarily complicated. Get any pack of regular anti-static inner sleeves from Amazon (check reviews and prices). Analogue Seduction sells some decent ones (bit pricier than Amazon but they are good quality and highly regarded in the vinyl community). Hope this helps!
Great advice all around! As I've been canvassing garage sales and thrift shops, it's pretty clear that a lot of people are either unaware or ignore these steps. One store by me even had the records tossed in a barrel!
Garage sales and thrift shops have their charm but it’s true that many people don’t have a clue/don’t care about proper vinyl storage. Tossed in a barrel… geez. Gives me goosebumps 😅 Once again many thanks for stopping by and sharing your comments!
Thanks for another great article. It makes sense to think of a vinyl collection as something similar to a wine cellar - a collection which also requires proper storage and maintenance in order to preserve and grow its value.
Thank you!! Yes, that’s a very interesting comparison. If you think about it, it makes sense, because vinyl is a physical, tangible asset (like wine), and as such, more likely to be affected by physical actions or elements. Understanding where and how to best store them is crucial.
Something I’ve never understood about vinyl storage advice is the point about not storing them horizontally. How would this warp them? If the records have a uniform density, the surface they’re on is flat, and the stack is neatly aligned, how could that cause warping? If anything it seems like that would tend to flatten the records by applying uniform pressure across them. I’ve never seen a good explanation, so hoping you can clarify. Thanks in advance!
Hey, Brandon.....there's nothing I can say that Andy hasn't already explained so beautifully, but I was gonna share my experiences, which may just be an anecdote or two that also might be helpful. Many, here, have already heard this "story," but now it can finally be in an appropriate place....finally!!
I grew up (I'm 68) in the '50s and '60s surrounded by 20,000 LPs and 78s (mostly jazz), so vinyl storage (and the threat of contracting PVC poisoning.....I kid!) became, for me, as natural as tying shoes and breathing. Dad, who was a radio ad exec, had custom cabinetry built (floor-to-ceiling and wall-to-wall) to store and house his treasures....all vertically.
So enamored of his collection was he, that he actually card-catalogued them all! In file drawers (not unlike at a library), he'd have cards on which he'd type name, title, etc of each album. Sadly, this led him to take a magic marker and in the upper right-hand corner of each back cover, he'd be compelled to write the matching number that was on its file card...hence, cross-referencing! I only mention this, because this had to affect the re-sale of some of these pieces, which he did around the turn of the century (this one). I mean, we're talking white label promos from labels like Columbia (a '59 Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" Columbia promo? C'mon!), Capitol (the entire '50s-era Sinatra catalog!), etc.
Speaking of the record companies themselves, as someone who's been in the inner sanctums of the local and regional Houston-based sales offices of Warner Bros. and Columbia, I can assert that all of them store their promos vertically. Same with A&M's, Capitol's, and Warner Bros.' national offices in L.A., all of whose doors I've had the pleasure of darkening!
Plus, the two record store chains for whom I've worked (in Houston and L.A.)....both sold all their LPs in bins that allowed for, and preferred, vertical storage.
Bottom line....all Dad's albums were stored vertically. He'd never consider otherwise. If he and I ever had "the talk," I can't recall....I just observed, and my collection (starting with "Meet the Beatles" promo Capitol album, with "PROMO" punched in the upper-right-hand corner of the cover, as in tiny bullet holes!) began growing, but only vertically, left to right, alphabetically! I never needed (or wanted) to card-catalog them. Even as my collection grew to 2,000 in the '70s, as I got into radio, myself, and then, the record biz, I knew what I had. Ask me then, artist or title, and I could tell you if I had it or not!
As I experienced record shows in the '80s and '90s, and met more audiophiles, only then did I discover inner vinyl-lined sleeves (which I had little use for) and the vinyl over-sleeves for the entire album (including jacket). Those I invested in more over time, just because they seemed to protect the entire item, and imports (I'm in U.S., so UK and EU releases) seemed, to me, more important to protect in this way!
Brandon, I hope this helps from one who's likely been around more vinyl than a linoleum warehouse! I apologize if this might've sounded like bragging, but it's useless information if all it does is stay locked up in my brain!
Andy, thanks tons for the space! You're a ray of vinyl sunshine on the horizon, and the 'Stack is lucky to have you!
Oh I agree everyone says to store vertically, and that’s how I store mine. I’ve just never understood how a neat stack on a flat surface would cause warping. The physics of that claim don’t make sense to me.
I've seen Andy use the word "pressure," but I don't know if anyone's ever used the word "weight." Which is, of course, the CAUSE of that pressure, granted, but that's the one element (weight) that's happily missing from the vertical argument: If you stacked 500 LPs up toward the ceiling, one on top of the other, there'd be an enormous weight component (gravity being what it is....not arbitrary) that simply doesn't exist when the same 500 LPs are stored one against another, side-by-side, vertically on a shelf.
I know I'm not trying to "convert" you, Brandon....you're on board.....I hope this helps to illustrate, though, the physics component a bit clearer. If not, gather 20 of your friends to lie, piled on top of one another; then, stand side-by-side as if making a train. Compare and contrast. Drinks (and, uh....clothes) optional.😱🥂🍸🍷🍾🍺🍻
Oh absolutely I understand where the weight is coming from. My question is how would that weight cause warping when evenly distributed across a flat surface?
For example, if you’re trying to flatten something like a rolled poster, a common technique is to lie it on a flat surface and pile heavy books on top. The weight applied evenly across a flat surface flattens what’s at the bottom. But for records that process somehow inverts, and instead of flattening them it warps them?
The thing is, records are already flat. Just because one possible way to “fix” a warped record is by flattening it, it doesn’t necessarily follow that vinyls stored in a seemingly “flat” way will prevent warping.
You should think of warping as a sort of “reaction” of the PVC as opposed to a linear process. Too much heat and/or weight can cause a record to warp because the material is sensitive to these factors.
And just to add to the above: when a record is brand new, it will (or at least it hopefully should) have had the ideal amount of heat and pressure applied to it as part of the (hopefully professional) manufacturing process. It is no wonder that precisely heat and pressure are commonly recommended methods to try to “fix” a warped record, because these are perhaps the two main things that are most likely to affect a record.
If a record is still within its “ideal” flatness level, then any heat or pressure that you add to it is likely to distort this balance and the vinyl surface is likely to react to it.
As someone has mentioned here (maybe Andy), the raised label area of the LP is the problem. If an LP was, indeed, as flat as a poster, you'd have a point. But (and again, as mentioned elsewhere...I know in Andy's article), there's heat and humidity that adds negatively to the equation.
PVC softening in the heat, with humidity, can aid in warpage (I was born and raised in Houston, TX...we harvest humidity there), whereas (generally speaking) heat and humidity have negligible effects on large, flat sheets of paper. It's possible that if large, flat sheets of paper had a small raised area in their centers, fewer people would seek to pile books on top of them.
I think the point about differences in thickness for the label and the sides of the sleeve vs the middle is an important one I wasn’t considering. And Andrea’s point about it being a “reaction” rather than a purely linear mechanical process is new and helpful.
Hi Brandon, thank you very much for your comment. It's an excellent question you are asking. The issue with storing records horizontally is due to the downward pressure caused by the records at the top of the stack. The records at the bottom of the pile, no matter how neatly aligned they are, will be more at risk of getting damaged over time. The most common problems that can develop over time from storing records horizontally are warping, scratches/marks and, to a lesser extent, cracks. Records are made with pressure and heat, so a little bit of any of these two "ingredients" in excess, and the record can suffer, as vinyl is particularly sensitive to them. I also once read that as labels protrude slightly from the surface of the record, this weight/pressure can make the bottom record bow or become bent over time (but I personally think the main reason why horizontal storage can lead to warping is simply due to how sensitive vinyl is to excessive weight/pressure). Scratches/marks may appear over time as the heavy pressure of horizontal stacking may push dirt particles (which even the cleanest of records are likely to have from time to time) against the grooves. In extreme cases, excessive weight could cause a record to crack (although this is uncommon).
You should bear in mind that this very same pressure that can damage your records will also damage the outer sleeve over time. Ring wear or misshaping of the jacket are more common on records that have been stored horizontally.
These are the main reasons why vertical alignment is preferred. Virtually all vinyl guides will recommend vertical storage for some or all of these reasons. In addition, and this is a personal observation more than anything else, storing records horizontally will, by necessity, mean that you will have to remove the records at the top of the stack every time you want to listen to one of the records at the bottom (and then again when putting it back). Apart from the obvious inconvenience, all this extra handling is bound to pose unnecessary risks even to the most careful and experienced collectors.
These are in essence the main reasons why, in my view, vertical alignment is preferred. Hope this helps!
Those points all make sense, and I agree that every guide ever says to only store vertically (and I do store mine vertically). Scratching from dust, sleeve wear, and inconvenience of retrieval all make perfect sense. But the bottom records warping just doesn’t make sense to me from a physics perspective. If the stack is neat and the surface is flat, then the weight is evenly distributed across the surface.
I am clearly not a physicist, but unless you were to store them in a horizonatally aligned unit equipped with individual dividers (where each divider will hold the weight of each record), the record at the bottom of the pile will suffer more.
This! Great post as usual! I’m struggling with the inner sleeves! I have seen a lot of people recommending “invest in vinyl” sleeves - where basically they put the records inside these and then place the records outside the actual gatefold sleeve, at the back, so basically when you grab the record, you have the outer plastic sleeve, and then inside, the actual (now) empty gatefold and the plastic sleeve containing the vinyl. While it looks beautiful (basically you can see the vinyl at the back and if it’s a coloured vinyl even cuter), I am not sure it’s really the best option. What do you think? I’m literally about to buy 100 pack of those so this post came at the right time! 😊 What do you think?
Thanks a lot. I’m glad you liked the post!
I’ve heard of these “invest in vinyl” sleeves. In my opinion it sounds unnecessarily complicated. Get any pack of regular anti-static inner sleeves from Amazon (check reviews and prices). Analogue Seduction sells some decent ones (bit pricier than Amazon but they are good quality and highly regarded in the vinyl community). Hope this helps!
Will definitely have a look! Thanks Andy! Looking forward to the next post! :)
Great advice all around! As I've been canvassing garage sales and thrift shops, it's pretty clear that a lot of people are either unaware or ignore these steps. One store by me even had the records tossed in a barrel!
Thank you! Much appreciated.
Garage sales and thrift shops have their charm but it’s true that many people don’t have a clue/don’t care about proper vinyl storage. Tossed in a barrel… geez. Gives me goosebumps 😅 Once again many thanks for stopping by and sharing your comments!
Thanks for another great article. It makes sense to think of a vinyl collection as something similar to a wine cellar - a collection which also requires proper storage and maintenance in order to preserve and grow its value.
Thank you!! Yes, that’s a very interesting comparison. If you think about it, it makes sense, because vinyl is a physical, tangible asset (like wine), and as such, more likely to be affected by physical actions or elements. Understanding where and how to best store them is crucial.
Once again many thanks for your comment!
Something I’ve never understood about vinyl storage advice is the point about not storing them horizontally. How would this warp them? If the records have a uniform density, the surface they’re on is flat, and the stack is neatly aligned, how could that cause warping? If anything it seems like that would tend to flatten the records by applying uniform pressure across them. I’ve never seen a good explanation, so hoping you can clarify. Thanks in advance!
Hey, Brandon.....there's nothing I can say that Andy hasn't already explained so beautifully, but I was gonna share my experiences, which may just be an anecdote or two that also might be helpful. Many, here, have already heard this "story," but now it can finally be in an appropriate place....finally!!
I grew up (I'm 68) in the '50s and '60s surrounded by 20,000 LPs and 78s (mostly jazz), so vinyl storage (and the threat of contracting PVC poisoning.....I kid!) became, for me, as natural as tying shoes and breathing. Dad, who was a radio ad exec, had custom cabinetry built (floor-to-ceiling and wall-to-wall) to store and house his treasures....all vertically.
So enamored of his collection was he, that he actually card-catalogued them all! In file drawers (not unlike at a library), he'd have cards on which he'd type name, title, etc of each album. Sadly, this led him to take a magic marker and in the upper right-hand corner of each back cover, he'd be compelled to write the matching number that was on its file card...hence, cross-referencing! I only mention this, because this had to affect the re-sale of some of these pieces, which he did around the turn of the century (this one). I mean, we're talking white label promos from labels like Columbia (a '59 Miles Davis "Kind of Blue" Columbia promo? C'mon!), Capitol (the entire '50s-era Sinatra catalog!), etc.
Speaking of the record companies themselves, as someone who's been in the inner sanctums of the local and regional Houston-based sales offices of Warner Bros. and Columbia, I can assert that all of them store their promos vertically. Same with A&M's, Capitol's, and Warner Bros.' national offices in L.A., all of whose doors I've had the pleasure of darkening!
Plus, the two record store chains for whom I've worked (in Houston and L.A.)....both sold all their LPs in bins that allowed for, and preferred, vertical storage.
Bottom line....all Dad's albums were stored vertically. He'd never consider otherwise. If he and I ever had "the talk," I can't recall....I just observed, and my collection (starting with "Meet the Beatles" promo Capitol album, with "PROMO" punched in the upper-right-hand corner of the cover, as in tiny bullet holes!) began growing, but only vertically, left to right, alphabetically! I never needed (or wanted) to card-catalog them. Even as my collection grew to 2,000 in the '70s, as I got into radio, myself, and then, the record biz, I knew what I had. Ask me then, artist or title, and I could tell you if I had it or not!
As I experienced record shows in the '80s and '90s, and met more audiophiles, only then did I discover inner vinyl-lined sleeves (which I had little use for) and the vinyl over-sleeves for the entire album (including jacket). Those I invested in more over time, just because they seemed to protect the entire item, and imports (I'm in U.S., so UK and EU releases) seemed, to me, more important to protect in this way!
Brandon, I hope this helps from one who's likely been around more vinyl than a linoleum warehouse! I apologize if this might've sounded like bragging, but it's useless information if all it does is stay locked up in my brain!
Andy, thanks tons for the space! You're a ray of vinyl sunshine on the horizon, and the 'Stack is lucky to have you!
Oh I agree everyone says to store vertically, and that’s how I store mine. I’ve just never understood how a neat stack on a flat surface would cause warping. The physics of that claim don’t make sense to me.
I've seen Andy use the word "pressure," but I don't know if anyone's ever used the word "weight." Which is, of course, the CAUSE of that pressure, granted, but that's the one element (weight) that's happily missing from the vertical argument: If you stacked 500 LPs up toward the ceiling, one on top of the other, there'd be an enormous weight component (gravity being what it is....not arbitrary) that simply doesn't exist when the same 500 LPs are stored one against another, side-by-side, vertically on a shelf.
I know I'm not trying to "convert" you, Brandon....you're on board.....I hope this helps to illustrate, though, the physics component a bit clearer. If not, gather 20 of your friends to lie, piled on top of one another; then, stand side-by-side as if making a train. Compare and contrast. Drinks (and, uh....clothes) optional.😱🥂🍸🍷🍾🍺🍻
Oh absolutely I understand where the weight is coming from. My question is how would that weight cause warping when evenly distributed across a flat surface?
For example, if you’re trying to flatten something like a rolled poster, a common technique is to lie it on a flat surface and pile heavy books on top. The weight applied evenly across a flat surface flattens what’s at the bottom. But for records that process somehow inverts, and instead of flattening them it warps them?
The thing is, records are already flat. Just because one possible way to “fix” a warped record is by flattening it, it doesn’t necessarily follow that vinyls stored in a seemingly “flat” way will prevent warping.
You should think of warping as a sort of “reaction” of the PVC as opposed to a linear process. Too much heat and/or weight can cause a record to warp because the material is sensitive to these factors.
And just to add to the above: when a record is brand new, it will (or at least it hopefully should) have had the ideal amount of heat and pressure applied to it as part of the (hopefully professional) manufacturing process. It is no wonder that precisely heat and pressure are commonly recommended methods to try to “fix” a warped record, because these are perhaps the two main things that are most likely to affect a record.
If a record is still within its “ideal” flatness level, then any heat or pressure that you add to it is likely to distort this balance and the vinyl surface is likely to react to it.
As someone has mentioned here (maybe Andy), the raised label area of the LP is the problem. If an LP was, indeed, as flat as a poster, you'd have a point. But (and again, as mentioned elsewhere...I know in Andy's article), there's heat and humidity that adds negatively to the equation.
PVC softening in the heat, with humidity, can aid in warpage (I was born and raised in Houston, TX...we harvest humidity there), whereas (generally speaking) heat and humidity have negligible effects on large, flat sheets of paper. It's possible that if large, flat sheets of paper had a small raised area in their centers, fewer people would seek to pile books on top of them.
Small world; I’m in Houston as well!
I think the point about differences in thickness for the label and the sides of the sleeve vs the middle is an important one I wasn’t considering. And Andrea’s point about it being a “reaction” rather than a purely linear mechanical process is new and helpful.
Appreciate the discussion, all!
Hi Brandon, thank you very much for your comment. It's an excellent question you are asking. The issue with storing records horizontally is due to the downward pressure caused by the records at the top of the stack. The records at the bottom of the pile, no matter how neatly aligned they are, will be more at risk of getting damaged over time. The most common problems that can develop over time from storing records horizontally are warping, scratches/marks and, to a lesser extent, cracks. Records are made with pressure and heat, so a little bit of any of these two "ingredients" in excess, and the record can suffer, as vinyl is particularly sensitive to them. I also once read that as labels protrude slightly from the surface of the record, this weight/pressure can make the bottom record bow or become bent over time (but I personally think the main reason why horizontal storage can lead to warping is simply due to how sensitive vinyl is to excessive weight/pressure). Scratches/marks may appear over time as the heavy pressure of horizontal stacking may push dirt particles (which even the cleanest of records are likely to have from time to time) against the grooves. In extreme cases, excessive weight could cause a record to crack (although this is uncommon).
You should bear in mind that this very same pressure that can damage your records will also damage the outer sleeve over time. Ring wear or misshaping of the jacket are more common on records that have been stored horizontally.
These are the main reasons why vertical alignment is preferred. Virtually all vinyl guides will recommend vertical storage for some or all of these reasons. In addition, and this is a personal observation more than anything else, storing records horizontally will, by necessity, mean that you will have to remove the records at the top of the stack every time you want to listen to one of the records at the bottom (and then again when putting it back). Apart from the obvious inconvenience, all this extra handling is bound to pose unnecessary risks even to the most careful and experienced collectors.
These are in essence the main reasons why, in my view, vertical alignment is preferred. Hope this helps!
Those points all make sense, and I agree that every guide ever says to only store vertically (and I do store mine vertically). Scratching from dust, sleeve wear, and inconvenience of retrieval all make perfect sense. But the bottom records warping just doesn’t make sense to me from a physics perspective. If the stack is neat and the surface is flat, then the weight is evenly distributed across the surface.
I am clearly not a physicist, but unless you were to store them in a horizonatally aligned unit equipped with individual dividers (where each divider will hold the weight of each record), the record at the bottom of the pile will suffer more.