Cool! I didn't know about this site. I may use it to eliminate some of what I have. Although I'm not ready to give up albums but I do have old books and videos I need to do something with! Perhaps there's another site that handles those.
Thanks, Dan! Yes, Discogs is great, not just to buy and sell records, but also for research, as Brad rightly points out. DVDs I understand only feature on Discogs if they are music-related (concert/tour videos, for example). For non-music DVDs, there must be other sites: eBay, for sure, and perhaps specialised pages.
Discogs is a fascinating site, to be sure, Dan! What's funny (and I've mentioned this to Andy before)....is that while he and others here use "the right side of the page" for shopping and listing, I'm all about the historical factoids on the left (a literal recreation of an album's liner notes).
When next you Tag Tunes, you'll now know to use Discogs as a handy research tool! I do! In fact, there's not a song or artist where I'm not scouring Discogs for verifying my memory, and/or finding new artists or session players for TT use! A word to the whys!😉
Discogs started as a database. When I was releasing compilations at the end of the nineties, I used it a lot to track down the repertoire owners of the obscure tracks I wanted to license. They have a great system in keeping their database up to date and avoiding any major errors. When preparing the Tune Tag, I did wonder if you were using Discogs like me to get me to the next record 😁. It was Discogs to the rescue 😄
Well, and especially with the international artists like Elkin & Nelson, with an otherwise non-existent reference point for Stateside me! I saw the red internat'l CBS record label on your video, and that, of course, told me something, but I'd-a been lost without Discogs (not a paid endorsement..................dammit).
I found this quaint: "I did wonder if you were using Discogs"! Aw, you know better than that, Pe! You do NOW, anyway! In fact, it's become so valuable for me, I'm surprised I'm not paying for it!😁👍
Wow, now that would be a job! The good news is that Discogs seems to have that fairly well covered, at least from the session players standpoint. If there are actual notes written, say, on the back cover, there are times when they've got photos of that back covers and/or gatefold, and with enlarging, they're sometimes legible!
Other times, Faith, creative Googlery can unearth an actual jacket back for, perhaps, those elusive notes! Oops....looks like this little emoji guy is raising his hand!🙋♂️Good idea, though, and I wonder if something like that already exists (and, we just haven't found it, yet)!
Some of the scans on Discogs are very good quality, to the extent that they look professionally made. On some occasions the quality is poorer but I often find this is less and less the case these days.
All this information about who wrote what and who plays what and when is simply not available on streaming, which is sad because it means kids today will never get to learn all this valuable stuff. But well… we can’t solve the world’s problems, can we? 😅
Your last paragraph got me to thinking (on a Monday?!? oh, gee, thanks, Andy!🤣)....has anyone done a break-down since century-turn, say, of the percentage of LPs that are of currently-available (new/recent) artists vs. the %-age of vinyl pre-century break (secondary market '60s thru '90s LPs)?
If collectors are buying "today's vinyl," then liner notes, etc are taken care of in that way. If the amount of 20th century "vintage vinyl" being purchased by collectors in the current "vinyl-surge" numbers, then that would indicate an increase, I reckon, in "kids" supplementing their streaming of those artists with the original liner notes/info on the jackets of the 20th century artists they're collecting.
I'm trying to find a silver lining, Andy, in your "simply not available on streaming, which is sad because it means kids today will never get to learn all this valuable stuff." Which takes me back to my original question: In the current "LPs overtake CDs for first time in (however long)" environment, do those numbers include vintage vinyl on the secondary market?
Glad I got you thinking because it’s usually the other way around, King of Tune Tag!
You ask a very good question. While the detailed analysis you refer to has not been (to my knowledge) made in those exact terms, what I can tell you is that the vinyl figures we regularly see on the news (vinyl overtakes CD in first time since 1987, or the stuff Luminate reports on the percentage of vinyl records sold versus CD’s and cassettes, for example) — all these figures/stats relate to new vinyl only. By new vinyl I mean newly-issued (i.e. new releases or new reissues of older records), sold in shrink. This is because tracking down sales in the secondary market is really hard to do (accurately, at least). So all this to say that the vinyl figures should actually be higher, at least in terms of volume, because we all know a big percentage of transactions take place in the secondary market (both online and in-store). What I do not know is how big those sales are compared with new vinyl sales.
all of what you say is true, but I long for a consistent reliable one click shop where I can search for the album and instantly and reliably pull up the original liner notes (and yes, ideally photos of the album and inner sleeve) without having to go searching. I don't want to do creative Googlery (what a term though!) for something like that, I just want to have it be there!
I'm right there with ya, Faith! Especially as one who sold all 2,000 vinyls 2 dozen years ago, I'd love to experience the next-best thing to seeing exactly what was in my collection!
Right? I'm telling you, if someone were to take the time to set this up, it'd be instantly indispensable. And it could be a wiki, of course, where people could upload and add to the archive.
I am going to have to check out discogs more fully. I’ve looked things up there, but haven’t really checked into all of the features.
I have one tightly packed milk crate of records. Surely under 100, but should count them one of these days 😂 I just recently started playing them and adding records here and there.
One of my very best friends has over 13,000 records. Yes over 13,000. The storage is no joke floor to ceiling shelves that his father built into one of his basement walls. The other side of the wall is floor to ceiling CDs and DVDs. He’s been out of storage for records for a bit and has several boxes on the floor.
I’ve told my kids that if I ever go missing they can find me in his basement 🤣🤣🤣
Thank you, Kristin! Discogs is great: to browse, organise your collection and wantlist, and interact with other record lovers. I also use it a lot to buy records (though not exclusively).
Your friend’s record collection sounds like a dream!!! Would love to see something like that someday.
Yes, the genre thing is a rabbit hole of sorts. This is why alphabetically is the simplest way for me. It is interesting to see Fantastic Negrito right next to Ella Fitzgerald, ain’t gonna lie. But I have a feeling they would have got on.
Thanks for the deep dive on how you use Discogs. That’s gonna be important to me as and when I begin my vinyl journey. By the time I stopped buying CDs I’d amassed a collection of 2500+. I REALLY don’t want to do that again once I start up with vinyl. It’ll be really important for me to define what it is I’m trying to achieve with vinyl before I even start. And I probably need a want list and some well defined guardrails so I don’t end up with dozens of linear feet of albums.
Thank you, Mark, and I'm glad you enjoyed! Yes, I see what you mean. I think one big advantage for you now is that music is widely available on streaming platforms, which I suspect wasn't the case when you were collecting CDs. Having said that, it's good you are alert to patterns you certainly don't want to fall into as this will give you a lot of focus (which I think is, at the end of the day, the number one thing a wise collector should have).
Uh? What vinyl? 🤣 Now seriously, you can tell the focus was clearly somewhere else when they took these photos! Apart from their clumsy fingers, I wonder what other part(s) of their bodies got onto those grooves! 😄
Just went and looked; my Wantlist has 3 items on it, one of which I just realized I already have. lol. Clearly, I've not been using Disocgs to it's full potential.
But that’s great! I obsessively update mine and keep adding stuff, but I think it’s great if you just follow your instinct and rely on your memory/gut feeling to choose records when you go shopping. I should do more of that.
Great piece Andy. I've been using Discogs for years. And I buy all my hard to find disco and eighties dance stuff on Discogs. Their system works really well.
Food for thought! I keep a spreadsheet of all the albums I listen to, so an 'Own' column can be checked against my discogs. Of the 1100+ albums, I have around 200 of them on LP.
When my collection was brought (out of 7 years storage) from Australia to the UK, I started thinking about my collection, and started to list the items that fell below a certain rank. I also decided to split my hard worked on White Stripes 7" singles collection and keep a core selection of meaningful ones.
As such my wantlist is rather small currently, as I focus on the 50 or so records to have all of my top 200, then I'll work up to 300.
Well, you know I have a thing about people overconsuming music and thus cheapening it through quantity and I think that bleeds over into vinyl collections, too. We live in a culture where "More is more" and I think it's rather the opposite. Less is more because a carefully curated record collection creates a more sacred mindset when it comes to music -- a focus on truly connecting with and cherishing the important music and leaving the rest for streaming.
It's deep collecting to pair with deep listening.
When I restarted my vinyl life about two years ago, I focused on putting together on a carefully curated collection of records that really, really need to be on vinyl because they're Important. Here's the quiet thing -- most music is not Important. That's the reality of all art forms -- most music is below average to average, a minority of it is good to excellent, and very, very little of it is extraordinary. Streaming is fine for most music. Vinyl is reserved for what's excellent to extraordinary.
With a focus on excellent to extraordinary, I have everything I want at this point, on a single small shelf barring a few odds and ends that I'm waiting for a reissue on. When I get a new release of something, I send the old one off to be enjoyed by someone else. Of course I'll keep buying new vinyl pressings of everything the Fabs release, and most of what Paul and George and John re-release mostly because I vote with my dollars to signal that yes, please keep putting new mixes out, there is still demand. But that's more or less it. And because I only buy in the excellent to extraordinary category, I have $ to buy the ones that really matter.
Thank you so much as always for your VERY insightful and thought-provoking comments. You always make me think so much.
I agree with most things you say but, interestingly, some of the conclusions I reach are the opposite. And I think it’s because deep down I fantasise with emancipating myself from streaming. Needless to say, it’s an extremely valuable tool, to filter/discover/decide etc. Particularly in my case as I feel there’s a lot of music I still need to discover.
But to be honest with you, while I appreciate this may not be the smartest or more convenient or practical thing you’ll hear me say, I seriously fantasise with the idea of, one day, being able to say “I don’t need streaming anymore”.
This is why, although I agree with you that less is more, and that one should focus more on those records that have really moved us, I fantasise with the idea of building a collection that is large enough so I depend less and less on streaming as time goes by.
You told me how well you can navigate the bullshit on those platforms and I really do admire that, but at this point — and this is crucial, because my views might change as I grow older/more mature/gain more experience — I’d rather make the effort (money+space+time) and buy the record of that album I know I won’t spin that much (but I still want to spin from time to time) than rely on streaming platforms.
This might not be the smartest thing you’ll hear me say, but it’s perhaps one of the most honest things I’ve said in a while.
Thanks as always for always taking the conversation to the next level.
I too occasionally flirt with freeing myself from streaming, but I quickly reject the idea -- not because there's all this unknown music out there I'm longing to discover, there really isn't -- but because sometimes the cat's on my lap and I'm comfortable and I don't want to get up and change the flipping record over... (I have a bluetooth speaker for my turntable because I cannot listen to stereo, not even for the Fabs It hurts my head. So I can switch to streaming without getting up.)
And because I was the kid in school who made mix tapes for friends, and I do like my playlists. Like, for example, my beloved Paul McCartney EDM /ambient playlist (https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3QxCE2P8lJKBqyULeKJ6AG?si=a6e0c36b93b24c95) which is sublime and sustantative but not too distracting when I need to focus and slips me into a zone that can't be duplicated with a record because those songs just aren't on a single record (plus it's five hours of music...).
Also there are some artists that aren't album artists that I still like to listen to. To get the best xof, say, George Harrison, requires curating songs off his often uneven albums into a playlist.
Also I don't listen widely anymore. I occasoinally listen to something I haven't heard for awhile or check out something new (like my discovery of BRTHR on my last Liverpool trip), but it's an occasional thing -- I think this is what you're referencing in your comment about me being able to avoid all the BS on Spotify. I don't notice the BS and I'm not entirely sure what it is. I know what I'm looking to listen to, I search for it, I play it. That's pretty much what Spotify is for me and I keep getting surprised to hear that people actually use it to discover new music -- why on eaerth would I trust an algorithm to tell me what to listen to????
I tend to listen to those Excellent to Extraordinary artists exclusively, and when I combine that with my personal preferences, it gives me a handful of artists that I listen to 99% of the time, which makes it very easy to look at my vinyl collection and say, yep, got it covered.
PS Here's something that haunts me. If I'm listening on vinyl, the artist doesn't get the streaming credit. That's probably fine for an artist with the stature and continued popularity of Paul McCartney and Bob Dylan,, but not so fine for a newer artist really needs those streaming #s. And if I buy that album used, the artist doesn't even get the $ for the vinyl purchase. For me, I sometimes opt for streaming instead of the album just for this reason. (In my more insane moments, I considered streaming the album with the mute button on as I play it to have it count on the streaming numbers. Then I took a sanity pause and came to my senses. 😂
That makes a lot of sense, especially with a kitten on your lap (too cute for words!).
In my case, there really isn't a lot more music I want to discover either, but I am kind of a completist with certain artists who have really moved me and/or whose entire work I don't know. Streaming helps me discover almost all of their discography (not absolutely everything is always available for streaming, as we know) and then decide which records I want to buy.
To new artists I give a maximum of 2 or 3 minutes to see if they really move me. If they do, I dive deeper. If not, next. I am more patient with artists who have already moved me with some of their records. This is part of what I mean when I say I'd rather listen to more of what I already like versus more new stuff (new-to-me as well as up and coming artists).
I've never been a playlist kind of person, as I tend to prefer listening to albums as a whole. I'm very LP-centred. I do enjoy an occasional playlist, but I can totally live without them. I understand that, for someone who really likes creating/listening to playlists, this feature is important, and cannot be easily replicated.
Regarding streaming royalties, I see your point and I can totally understand why it's important to support artists as much as we can. In my case, most (if not all) of the music I listen to is by artists who have millions in their bank accounts, and I know one stream less won't really affect them. I can only think of one artist who would potentially benefit from streaming numbers but they're not actively recording or releasing stuff right now. In any case, I understand that the money they get from streaming is so little that I wonder whether it really makes a difference (but this is something outside of my level of expertise so I can't really comment too much on this).
Now that I think of it, even when I stream, I tend to download and listen offline, which probably also doesn't help them too much from that perspective. It's just that I struggle with the idea of listening to music on a device that is actively and constantly connected and receiving other stuff that would distract me from the music 😂
Most of my streaming time is on the tube (where there's no, or very limited, internet) or at the gym (where wifi is not always reliable). This is why I download, listen from start to finish, and if I really like it, it goes into my Discogs wantlist and I remove the download from my phone. I make a point of not streaming the record anymore to see how desperately I really want to listen to it on a regular basis. If I'm craving for it, I try to buy it on vinyl. If I don't have a burning desire to listen to it more than a few times, I move on.
This is what works for me and my current routine but I am conscious that if I had a different routine some things might be different (or not). I do need my turntable and my records more than any other thing, though.
Just dropping in to say that with regard to streaming vs vinyl, you're right that it's not about the $ -- the amount per stream is so low it might as well be the Beatles' EMI record deal....
It's that a lot of things happen for artists based on streaming numbers, whether they're established or not, in terms of being perceived as relevant, professional oportunities, invitations to festivals, record deal negotiation, etc. Vinyl sales are reflected in that, too, of course, but not used vinyl sales. So I think about it.
Yes, I hear you. Streaming numbers are the new record sales as a metric of growth and popularity. The second hand market doesn’t really contribute to their metrics (as far as I know), but in most cases I just prefer those pressings a lot more than reissues so it’s a balancing act I guess. At least, when you buy second hand, it sends a signal to the seller/store that those records are still in demand, so they’ll hopefully be more likely to get more stock. Small silver lining.
So.... if you had to choose one or the other -- forever -- and you have to choose not just for yourself, but for the whole world.... with the wave of a wand, you can make streaming go poof and the world is back to only physical media and live performance for experiencing music, or it's streaming only forever and all the vinyl (etc) disappears, which one do you choose?
Before you instinctively choose vinyl, consider that if we wave the wand and eliminate streaming, there's no easy way to share songs with friends across the water, it becomes exponentially harder for new artists to release music because physical media are expensive to produce, and the vast majority of recorded music will be lost to humanity forever because there isn't enough demand to keep it in print and physical media is fragile and temporary. Corporate record labels dominate again because indies can't afford record store distribution and promotion to get radio play and indie releases are limited to local and regional markets, if that.
Or.... we get the sumptuousness and ritual and tactile and emotional connection of vinyl (etc) and music becomes substantive again and people begin again to listen with intent and conscious thought. Friends have to actually visit other friends to share music and it begins to build connections between people that have been lost. Music stops being disposable and becomes what it's meant to be, the creme rises to the top and the disposable stuff disappears from view. Because new artists have to work much harder to put out quality work, their music improves (no more putting up the track you made in ten minutes in your bedroom just because you can). Thus new music becomes more substantive to justify the investment of time and money and it has to compete with established artists who can easily afford to release albums on physical media, and the overall quality of all music improves.
This is a fantastic comment and really encapsulates what I’m HOPING to do once I embark on my vinyl journey next year. The challenge for me will be defining what extraordinary means for me. It’s a task I’ll be delving into during the first quarter of 2025 PRIOR to buying anything at all related to vinyl. I’m an all or nothing kind of guy with an addictive and obsessive personality and will very much need a roadmap and some tight guardrails for my vinyl journey.
I too am addictive and obsessive -- though I tend to see it more as passionate because those other words have negative connotations that aren't always deserved.
I suppose the difference for me relative to vinyl is that I'm passionate about certain artists -- a very small number of them because if I don't have a deep emotional connection to the artist, it's very very hard for me to have anything other than an abstract appreciation for the music. I'm not passionate about music in general or the format of it. So it's very easy for me to stick to only the artists I'm passionate about and leave the rest. It's what I do anyway.
Cool! I didn't know about this site. I may use it to eliminate some of what I have. Although I'm not ready to give up albums but I do have old books and videos I need to do something with! Perhaps there's another site that handles those.
Thanks, Dan! Yes, Discogs is great, not just to buy and sell records, but also for research, as Brad rightly points out. DVDs I understand only feature on Discogs if they are music-related (concert/tour videos, for example). For non-music DVDs, there must be other sites: eBay, for sure, and perhaps specialised pages.
For sure. I need dig a little deeper into Discogs. Thanks for turning me on to it!
Discogs is a fascinating site, to be sure, Dan! What's funny (and I've mentioned this to Andy before)....is that while he and others here use "the right side of the page" for shopping and listing, I'm all about the historical factoids on the left (a literal recreation of an album's liner notes).
When next you Tag Tunes, you'll now know to use Discogs as a handy research tool! I do! In fact, there's not a song or artist where I'm not scouring Discogs for verifying my memory, and/or finding new artists or session players for TT use! A word to the whys!😉
Discogs started as a database. When I was releasing compilations at the end of the nineties, I used it a lot to track down the repertoire owners of the obscure tracks I wanted to license. They have a great system in keeping their database up to date and avoiding any major errors. When preparing the Tune Tag, I did wonder if you were using Discogs like me to get me to the next record 😁. It was Discogs to the rescue 😄
Well, and especially with the international artists like Elkin & Nelson, with an otherwise non-existent reference point for Stateside me! I saw the red internat'l CBS record label on your video, and that, of course, told me something, but I'd-a been lost without Discogs (not a paid endorsement..................dammit).
I found this quaint: "I did wonder if you were using Discogs"! Aw, you know better than that, Pe! You do NOW, anyway! In fact, it's become so valuable for me, I'm surprised I'm not paying for it!😁👍
I long for someone (not me, I got a podcast to write) to finally create a web archive of original liner notes from vinyl releases. Hint, hint...
Wow, now that would be a job! The good news is that Discogs seems to have that fairly well covered, at least from the session players standpoint. If there are actual notes written, say, on the back cover, there are times when they've got photos of that back covers and/or gatefold, and with enlarging, they're sometimes legible!
Other times, Faith, creative Googlery can unearth an actual jacket back for, perhaps, those elusive notes! Oops....looks like this little emoji guy is raising his hand!🙋♂️Good idea, though, and I wonder if something like that already exists (and, we just haven't found it, yet)!
Some of the scans on Discogs are very good quality, to the extent that they look professionally made. On some occasions the quality is poorer but I often find this is less and less the case these days.
All this information about who wrote what and who plays what and when is simply not available on streaming, which is sad because it means kids today will never get to learn all this valuable stuff. But well… we can’t solve the world’s problems, can we? 😅
Your last paragraph got me to thinking (on a Monday?!? oh, gee, thanks, Andy!🤣)....has anyone done a break-down since century-turn, say, of the percentage of LPs that are of currently-available (new/recent) artists vs. the %-age of vinyl pre-century break (secondary market '60s thru '90s LPs)?
If collectors are buying "today's vinyl," then liner notes, etc are taken care of in that way. If the amount of 20th century "vintage vinyl" being purchased by collectors in the current "vinyl-surge" numbers, then that would indicate an increase, I reckon, in "kids" supplementing their streaming of those artists with the original liner notes/info on the jackets of the 20th century artists they're collecting.
I'm trying to find a silver lining, Andy, in your "simply not available on streaming, which is sad because it means kids today will never get to learn all this valuable stuff." Which takes me back to my original question: In the current "LPs overtake CDs for first time in (however long)" environment, do those numbers include vintage vinyl on the secondary market?
Glad I got you thinking because it’s usually the other way around, King of Tune Tag!
You ask a very good question. While the detailed analysis you refer to has not been (to my knowledge) made in those exact terms, what I can tell you is that the vinyl figures we regularly see on the news (vinyl overtakes CD in first time since 1987, or the stuff Luminate reports on the percentage of vinyl records sold versus CD’s and cassettes, for example) — all these figures/stats relate to new vinyl only. By new vinyl I mean newly-issued (i.e. new releases or new reissues of older records), sold in shrink. This is because tracking down sales in the secondary market is really hard to do (accurately, at least). So all this to say that the vinyl figures should actually be higher, at least in terms of volume, because we all know a big percentage of transactions take place in the secondary market (both online and in-store). What I do not know is how big those sales are compared with new vinyl sales.
all of what you say is true, but I long for a consistent reliable one click shop where I can search for the album and instantly and reliably pull up the original liner notes (and yes, ideally photos of the album and inner sleeve) without having to go searching. I don't want to do creative Googlery (what a term though!) for something like that, I just want to have it be there!
I'm right there with ya, Faith! Especially as one who sold all 2,000 vinyls 2 dozen years ago, I'd love to experience the next-best thing to seeing exactly what was in my collection!
Right? I'm telling you, if someone were to take the time to set this up, it'd be instantly indispensable. And it could be a wiki, of course, where people could upload and add to the archive.
I am going to have to check out discogs more fully. I’ve looked things up there, but haven’t really checked into all of the features.
I have one tightly packed milk crate of records. Surely under 100, but should count them one of these days 😂 I just recently started playing them and adding records here and there.
One of my very best friends has over 13,000 records. Yes over 13,000. The storage is no joke floor to ceiling shelves that his father built into one of his basement walls. The other side of the wall is floor to ceiling CDs and DVDs. He’s been out of storage for records for a bit and has several boxes on the floor.
I’ve told my kids that if I ever go missing they can find me in his basement 🤣🤣🤣
Thank you, Kristin! Discogs is great: to browse, organise your collection and wantlist, and interact with other record lovers. I also use it a lot to buy records (though not exclusively).
Your friend’s record collection sounds like a dream!!! Would love to see something like that someday.
It’s too bad I can’t attach pics here! Last time I was there I took some pics lol
You can send 'em to Andy via DMs, I believe!
Oooh I’ll try! LOL
I couldn’t figure out how to DM, so I sent an email reply to the newsletter in my inbox! Two weeks later 🤣
Thank you, Kristin! Much appreciated!
I like the idea of using a want list, helps keep you focused.
Space is definitely an issue along with how to store the albums and show them off.
I have been on a kick to sort them correctly, which is not as easy as one might suspect.
Thank you, Bob! Yes, focus is key, and these tools really help provide some much-needed structure and focus.
I like to sort mine alphabetically (by surname/band name). While not perfect, it simplifies things for me.
I tried to separate by genre, and then ran into issues with artists that don't fit one genre or switch genre from album to album.
Totally overthinking the whole thing.
Yes, the genre thing is a rabbit hole of sorts. This is why alphabetically is the simplest way for me. It is interesting to see Fantastic Negrito right next to Ella Fitzgerald, ain’t gonna lie. But I have a feeling they would have got on.
When it comes to collecting vinyl, well, one thing is for certain — space is essential!
Absolutely. I love that, actually, because it forces you to choose carefully.
Thanks for the deep dive on how you use Discogs. That’s gonna be important to me as and when I begin my vinyl journey. By the time I stopped buying CDs I’d amassed a collection of 2500+. I REALLY don’t want to do that again once I start up with vinyl. It’ll be really important for me to define what it is I’m trying to achieve with vinyl before I even start. And I probably need a want list and some well defined guardrails so I don’t end up with dozens of linear feet of albums.
Thank you, Mark, and I'm glad you enjoyed! Yes, I see what you mean. I think one big advantage for you now is that music is widely available on streaming platforms, which I suspect wasn't the case when you were collecting CDs. Having said that, it's good you are alert to patterns you certainly don't want to fall into as this will give you a lot of focus (which I think is, at the end of the day, the number one thing a wise collector should have).
Not sure about the "how to handle vinyl" examples in your chosen pics. 😱
Uh? What vinyl? 🤣 Now seriously, you can tell the focus was clearly somewhere else when they took these photos! Apart from their clumsy fingers, I wonder what other part(s) of their bodies got onto those grooves! 😄
Just went and looked; my Wantlist has 3 items on it, one of which I just realized I already have. lol. Clearly, I've not been using Disocgs to it's full potential.
But that’s great! I obsessively update mine and keep adding stuff, but I think it’s great if you just follow your instinct and rely on your memory/gut feeling to choose records when you go shopping. I should do more of that.
Great piece Andy. I've been using Discogs for years. And I buy all my hard to find disco and eighties dance stuff on Discogs. Their system works really well.
Thank you! Yes, Discogs is great, especially for those hard-to-find gems!
Food for thought! I keep a spreadsheet of all the albums I listen to, so an 'Own' column can be checked against my discogs. Of the 1100+ albums, I have around 200 of them on LP.
When my collection was brought (out of 7 years storage) from Australia to the UK, I started thinking about my collection, and started to list the items that fell below a certain rank. I also decided to split my hard worked on White Stripes 7" singles collection and keep a core selection of meaningful ones.
As such my wantlist is rather small currently, as I focus on the 50 or so records to have all of my top 200, then I'll work up to 300.
Thank you, Taro! That’s a great system, actually. I like the prioritisation and focus it gives you
Well, you know I have a thing about people overconsuming music and thus cheapening it through quantity and I think that bleeds over into vinyl collections, too. We live in a culture where "More is more" and I think it's rather the opposite. Less is more because a carefully curated record collection creates a more sacred mindset when it comes to music -- a focus on truly connecting with and cherishing the important music and leaving the rest for streaming.
It's deep collecting to pair with deep listening.
When I restarted my vinyl life about two years ago, I focused on putting together on a carefully curated collection of records that really, really need to be on vinyl because they're Important. Here's the quiet thing -- most music is not Important. That's the reality of all art forms -- most music is below average to average, a minority of it is good to excellent, and very, very little of it is extraordinary. Streaming is fine for most music. Vinyl is reserved for what's excellent to extraordinary.
With a focus on excellent to extraordinary, I have everything I want at this point, on a single small shelf barring a few odds and ends that I'm waiting for a reissue on. When I get a new release of something, I send the old one off to be enjoyed by someone else. Of course I'll keep buying new vinyl pressings of everything the Fabs release, and most of what Paul and George and John re-release mostly because I vote with my dollars to signal that yes, please keep putting new mixes out, there is still demand. But that's more or less it. And because I only buy in the excellent to extraordinary category, I have $ to buy the ones that really matter.
Deep collecting. Only the diamonds.
Thank you so much as always for your VERY insightful and thought-provoking comments. You always make me think so much.
I agree with most things you say but, interestingly, some of the conclusions I reach are the opposite. And I think it’s because deep down I fantasise with emancipating myself from streaming. Needless to say, it’s an extremely valuable tool, to filter/discover/decide etc. Particularly in my case as I feel there’s a lot of music I still need to discover.
But to be honest with you, while I appreciate this may not be the smartest or more convenient or practical thing you’ll hear me say, I seriously fantasise with the idea of, one day, being able to say “I don’t need streaming anymore”.
This is why, although I agree with you that less is more, and that one should focus more on those records that have really moved us, I fantasise with the idea of building a collection that is large enough so I depend less and less on streaming as time goes by.
You told me how well you can navigate the bullshit on those platforms and I really do admire that, but at this point — and this is crucial, because my views might change as I grow older/more mature/gain more experience — I’d rather make the effort (money+space+time) and buy the record of that album I know I won’t spin that much (but I still want to spin from time to time) than rely on streaming platforms.
This might not be the smartest thing you’ll hear me say, but it’s perhaps one of the most honest things I’ve said in a while.
Thanks as always for always taking the conversation to the next level.
I too occasionally flirt with freeing myself from streaming, but I quickly reject the idea -- not because there's all this unknown music out there I'm longing to discover, there really isn't -- but because sometimes the cat's on my lap and I'm comfortable and I don't want to get up and change the flipping record over... (I have a bluetooth speaker for my turntable because I cannot listen to stereo, not even for the Fabs It hurts my head. So I can switch to streaming without getting up.)
And because I was the kid in school who made mix tapes for friends, and I do like my playlists. Like, for example, my beloved Paul McCartney EDM /ambient playlist (https://open.spotify.com/playlist/3QxCE2P8lJKBqyULeKJ6AG?si=a6e0c36b93b24c95) which is sublime and sustantative but not too distracting when I need to focus and slips me into a zone that can't be duplicated with a record because those songs just aren't on a single record (plus it's five hours of music...).
Also there are some artists that aren't album artists that I still like to listen to. To get the best xof, say, George Harrison, requires curating songs off his often uneven albums into a playlist.
Also I don't listen widely anymore. I occasoinally listen to something I haven't heard for awhile or check out something new (like my discovery of BRTHR on my last Liverpool trip), but it's an occasional thing -- I think this is what you're referencing in your comment about me being able to avoid all the BS on Spotify. I don't notice the BS and I'm not entirely sure what it is. I know what I'm looking to listen to, I search for it, I play it. That's pretty much what Spotify is for me and I keep getting surprised to hear that people actually use it to discover new music -- why on eaerth would I trust an algorithm to tell me what to listen to????
I tend to listen to those Excellent to Extraordinary artists exclusively, and when I combine that with my personal preferences, it gives me a handful of artists that I listen to 99% of the time, which makes it very easy to look at my vinyl collection and say, yep, got it covered.
PS Here's something that haunts me. If I'm listening on vinyl, the artist doesn't get the streaming credit. That's probably fine for an artist with the stature and continued popularity of Paul McCartney and Bob Dylan,, but not so fine for a newer artist really needs those streaming #s. And if I buy that album used, the artist doesn't even get the $ for the vinyl purchase. For me, I sometimes opt for streaming instead of the album just for this reason. (In my more insane moments, I considered streaming the album with the mute button on as I play it to have it count on the streaming numbers. Then I took a sanity pause and came to my senses. 😂
That makes a lot of sense, especially with a kitten on your lap (too cute for words!).
In my case, there really isn't a lot more music I want to discover either, but I am kind of a completist with certain artists who have really moved me and/or whose entire work I don't know. Streaming helps me discover almost all of their discography (not absolutely everything is always available for streaming, as we know) and then decide which records I want to buy.
To new artists I give a maximum of 2 or 3 minutes to see if they really move me. If they do, I dive deeper. If not, next. I am more patient with artists who have already moved me with some of their records. This is part of what I mean when I say I'd rather listen to more of what I already like versus more new stuff (new-to-me as well as up and coming artists).
I've never been a playlist kind of person, as I tend to prefer listening to albums as a whole. I'm very LP-centred. I do enjoy an occasional playlist, but I can totally live without them. I understand that, for someone who really likes creating/listening to playlists, this feature is important, and cannot be easily replicated.
Regarding streaming royalties, I see your point and I can totally understand why it's important to support artists as much as we can. In my case, most (if not all) of the music I listen to is by artists who have millions in their bank accounts, and I know one stream less won't really affect them. I can only think of one artist who would potentially benefit from streaming numbers but they're not actively recording or releasing stuff right now. In any case, I understand that the money they get from streaming is so little that I wonder whether it really makes a difference (but this is something outside of my level of expertise so I can't really comment too much on this).
Now that I think of it, even when I stream, I tend to download and listen offline, which probably also doesn't help them too much from that perspective. It's just that I struggle with the idea of listening to music on a device that is actively and constantly connected and receiving other stuff that would distract me from the music 😂
Most of my streaming time is on the tube (where there's no, or very limited, internet) or at the gym (where wifi is not always reliable). This is why I download, listen from start to finish, and if I really like it, it goes into my Discogs wantlist and I remove the download from my phone. I make a point of not streaming the record anymore to see how desperately I really want to listen to it on a regular basis. If I'm craving for it, I try to buy it on vinyl. If I don't have a burning desire to listen to it more than a few times, I move on.
This is what works for me and my current routine but I am conscious that if I had a different routine some things might be different (or not). I do need my turntable and my records more than any other thing, though.
Just dropping in to say that with regard to streaming vs vinyl, you're right that it's not about the $ -- the amount per stream is so low it might as well be the Beatles' EMI record deal....
It's that a lot of things happen for artists based on streaming numbers, whether they're established or not, in terms of being perceived as relevant, professional oportunities, invitations to festivals, record deal negotiation, etc. Vinyl sales are reflected in that, too, of course, but not used vinyl sales. So I think about it.
Yes, I hear you. Streaming numbers are the new record sales as a metric of growth and popularity. The second hand market doesn’t really contribute to their metrics (as far as I know), but in most cases I just prefer those pressings a lot more than reissues so it’s a balancing act I guess. At least, when you buy second hand, it sends a signal to the seller/store that those records are still in demand, so they’ll hopefully be more likely to get more stock. Small silver lining.
So.... if you had to choose one or the other -- forever -- and you have to choose not just for yourself, but for the whole world.... with the wave of a wand, you can make streaming go poof and the world is back to only physical media and live performance for experiencing music, or it's streaming only forever and all the vinyl (etc) disappears, which one do you choose?
Before you instinctively choose vinyl, consider that if we wave the wand and eliminate streaming, there's no easy way to share songs with friends across the water, it becomes exponentially harder for new artists to release music because physical media are expensive to produce, and the vast majority of recorded music will be lost to humanity forever because there isn't enough demand to keep it in print and physical media is fragile and temporary. Corporate record labels dominate again because indies can't afford record store distribution and promotion to get radio play and indie releases are limited to local and regional markets, if that.
Or.... we get the sumptuousness and ritual and tactile and emotional connection of vinyl (etc) and music becomes substantive again and people begin again to listen with intent and conscious thought. Friends have to actually visit other friends to share music and it begins to build connections between people that have been lost. Music stops being disposable and becomes what it's meant to be, the creme rises to the top and the disposable stuff disappears from view. Because new artists have to work much harder to put out quality work, their music improves (no more putting up the track you made in ten minutes in your bedroom just because you can). Thus new music becomes more substantive to justify the investment of time and money and it has to compete with established artists who can easily afford to release albums on physical media, and the overall quality of all music improves.
But you only get one of the two.
?
This is a fantastic comment and really encapsulates what I’m HOPING to do once I embark on my vinyl journey next year. The challenge for me will be defining what extraordinary means for me. It’s a task I’ll be delving into during the first quarter of 2025 PRIOR to buying anything at all related to vinyl. I’m an all or nothing kind of guy with an addictive and obsessive personality and will very much need a roadmap and some tight guardrails for my vinyl journey.
I too am addictive and obsessive -- though I tend to see it more as passionate because those other words have negative connotations that aren't always deserved.
I suppose the difference for me relative to vinyl is that I'm passionate about certain artists -- a very small number of them because if I don't have a deep emotional connection to the artist, it's very very hard for me to have anything other than an abstract appreciation for the music. I'm not passionate about music in general or the format of it. So it's very easy for me to stick to only the artists I'm passionate about and leave the rest. It's what I do anyway.